[Bette]

Have the Bucs finally figured out who their quarterback will be? It looks like they have rediscovered Garcia (who I didnt think should have been benched in the first place) because Gruden says he believes in him.
He took the place of Brian Griese (who is out with elbow and shoulder injuries) and completed 15 out of 20 passes for 242 yards and a TD in the 27-3 win over the Panthers.

So does that mean the job is his???

[BlackBeardsGhost]

What reasons do you have to state that Garcia shouldn't have been benched in the first place?

Yes, the job is his....until he gets hurt again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, and for how long.

[Seahawker 562]

Originally Posted by BlackBeardsGhost

What reasons do you have to state that Garcia shouldn't have been benched in the first place?

Yes, the job is his....until he gets hurt again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, and for how long.

Garcia > Griese thats why

[Bette]

Originally Posted by BlackBeardsGhost

What reasons do you have to state that Garcia shouldn't have been benched in the first place?

Yes, the job is his....until he gets hurt again. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, and for how long.

After, what was it, one week he should be benched?

[Quality88]

Garcia is a hell of a QB, he just either gets passed over cause he's not young or a big name or he's hurt. He just needs to be left alone, and he does great things for a team, as starter or comin off the bench.

[BlackBeardsGhost]

Originally Posted by Seahawker 562

Garcia > Griese thats why

Garcia was not better than Griese when the season rolled around. Garcia wasn't better than Bruce Gradkowski in week 1 after getting almost no camp time or Pre Season snaps. Gruden actually made a huge mistake by not starting Griese in week #1. The Buccs could have, and probably would have beaten the Saints to open the season had Griese started. Garcia was GOD awful miserable in week #1.

[BlackBeardsGhost]

Originally Posted by Bette

After, what was it, one week he should be benched?

As in my post above, he should have never started. He wasn't ready. He wasn't prepared or 100% healthy. So yes, after 1 week he should have certainly been benched.

Garcia could only muster 58.5 percent completion percentage, tossed an INT, and had a paltry 71.3 QB rating against that horrible Saints secondary who rank 21st in the league.

[Bette]

Originally Posted by BlackBeardsGhost

As in my post above, he should have never started. He wasn't ready. He wasn't prepared or 100% healthy. So yes, after 1 week he should have certainly been benched.

Garcia could only muster 58.5 percent completion percentage, tossed an INT, and had a paltry 71.3 QB rating against that horrible Saints secondary who rank 21st in the league.

Ok, since I am not a Bucs fan and didnt follow it that closely, then I agree with you. He shouldnt have been started according to what you say. It just is pretty lousy to bench a guy after one game. Gruden playing games or what?
Are you happy with him now? (Garcia)

[BlackBeardsGhost]

Happy? No. The Buccs need to find a stable answer to the QB position. Gruden likes and wants "old men." He wants veterans, and veterans not named Brett Favre usually get hurt. Now Brady, Romo, Hasselbeck and even Brodie Croyle get hurt, so I'm not saying a young QB won't get hurt. The chances though are severely decreased.

Gruden is supposed to be an Offensive Guru, and supposedly a "molder of QB's" yet he couldn't develop Shaun King, Chris Simms, Bruce Gradkowski or even now Luke McCown. He wasn't able to transform the career or Rob Johnson, Tim Rattay or Brian Griese. I'm of the mind that Rich Gannon made Jon Gruden a legend, and not the other way around.

What is the answer? I have no idea. Teams just don't let great veteran QB's walk off their teams, and Gruden hasn't been able to develop a young QB of the future, so where does the answer lye?

For now I guess, I'll go into every season wondering who the QB will be, and if that will be the position holding us back for another year. Or I'll hope that some old QB can stay healthy enough and play well enough to take us deep into the play offswhere anything can happen.

Death, taxes and the Buccaneers searching for a franchise QB are the only certain things in life. The closest thing we ever had was Doug Williams, and because of a cheap, racist owner his Buccaneer career wasn't long enough to be considered a franchise QB. Trent Dilfer was the longest tenured QB, and he was never good enough to be considered a franchise QB.

[peg_city]

Garcia (if healthy) is good enough for this season. He's not great, but he's good (Last year pro bowl good). There are a lot of teams who don't have a 'franchise QB's' and Garcia seemed to have never been one. But again this year Garcia is under the radar currently in the top 10 in QB ratings (will probable finish in the top 10 in that catagory) and probable be a pro bowl candidate and yet Gruden and company think they can do better.

[BlackBeardsGhost]

No one can argue that Jeff Garcia did indeed play in the Pro Bowl last season. But it can be argued that he wasn't a Pro Bowler in every sense of the term it is usually used in.

Garcia was invited to Hawaii after 2 other QB's were hurt and declined to play. Garcia had 13 TD's last season. 13? Is that Pro Bowl caliber play? Hell no. If every QB in the AFC got hurt, and Brody Croyle played in the Pro Bowl, would that make him a Pro Bowl QB? No, it would make him a QB who played in the Pro Bowl.

[Bette]

Blackbeard has a point there about Garcia being a pro bowl qb peg_city. And he is too old now of course to be a franchise qb.

Black beard, we always laugh and make jokes about how many quarterbacks Gruden keeps around in the spring. Does kind of make you wonder. He still doesnt come up with a winner. So is he a lousy judge of talent, or isnt he such a hot shot at developing qbs after all? And maybe you are right about Gannon making him a legend and not the other way around.

[BlackBeardsGhost]

Originally Posted by Bette

Blackbeard has a point there about Garcia being a pro bowl qb peg_city. And he is too old now of course to be a franchise qb.

Black beard, we always laugh and make jokes about how many quarterbacks Gruden keeps around in the spring. Does kind of make you wonder. He still doesnt come up with a winner. So is he a lousy judge of talent, or isnt he such a hot shot at developing qbs after all? And maybe you are right about Gannon making him a legend and not the other way around.

Hahaha, great question. I'm bashed and hammered and ostracized by my fellow Buccaneer fans for not being the type of fan that waives his pom poms around telling everyone how great we are, and how all our players are the best. I'd like to think I know football, and I'd like to think I know it well enough to know the difference between a good player and an average player. Know the difference between a good coach and a not so good coach.

Some Buccaneer fans are in love with Jon Gruden. Sometimes I think they really won't know what to do with themselves when he's gone. Some fans seem to love Jon more than the team. Not this Buccs fan.

Is Jon Gruden a good judge of talent? Obviously Bruce Allen and the Glazer family thinks he is. Sure the talent evaluation process falls mostly on the college and Pro scouting departments within the Buccaneer organization, but Jon Gruden has the ultimate last word that helps GM Bruce Allen decide who to bring in and who not to bring in.

Let's take a look at Gruden'd drafts since he's been here. Only offensive players. Monte has a major influence on defensive players drafted, and really the only side of the ball we have been successful on when drafting.

2002
Marquise Walker - bust
Aaron Lockett - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else
Zack Quaccia - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else

2003
Chris Simms - never developed, could say bust
Lance Nimmo - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else
Austin King - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else
Sean Mahan - serviceable to bad, you be the judge

2004
Michael Clayton - bust for a 1st round pick, but sevicable contributing player
Jeb Terry - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else
Nate Lawrie - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else
Mark Jones - been cut 3 times, and each time he plays better than the player Jon replaced him with.
Casey Cramer - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else

2005
Carnell Williams - bust
Alex Smith - decent player above average
Chris Colmer - bust, drafted him with knowledge off a nerve condition and never played a snap
Dan Buenning - played like a pro bowler his rookie season, then disappeared
Larry Brackins - dumbest Jon Gruden pick ever
Rick Razzano - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else
Paris Warren - was starting to show serious promise for a 7th rounder in 2007, then severe ankle injury in last preseason game did him in. Just resigned to Buccs because of WR depth issues
J.R. Russell - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else

2006
Davin Joseph - Future pro Bowler
Jeremy Trueblood - Possible future Pro Bowler
Maurice Stovall - looking like a bust even for a 3rd rounder
Bruce Gradkowski - he sucks
T.J. Williams - was showing huge sleeper potential in camp, then went on IR
Tim Massaquoi - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else

2007 - too early to tell for sure
Arron Sears - Looking like a future Pro Bowler
Chris Henman - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else
Kenneth Darby - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else

2008 - way too early to tell, but early assessment
Dexter Jackson - bust
Jeremy Zuttah - hit a homerun with this kid
Josh Johnson - incomplete
Cory Boyd - not in the league or making an impact somewhere else


That's all the offensive draft picks since 2002. Is Jon Gruden a good judge of talent? You decide.


*******Disclaimer: Buccs fans with a very good inside knowledge of the Buccs know Jon Gruden and Rich McKay fought over Brian Westbrook. Gruden wanted Westbrook, and McKay chose Marquis Walker. The following season, Gruden wanted Domanick Davis and McKay chose Simms. Gruden is supposed to be a molder of QB's and a QB guru, so you decide on that one.