[EmpireWF]

Gruden is to me, the coach who won the big game for the Bucs. Dungy built the team up and got them in the playoffs but he could never win that big game. It goes to show you, he still can't seem win the big game even in Indianapolis.

But I guess the argument is like the chicken and the egg fiasco.

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

Dungy left him the parts in place...he don't count

Honestly I think Dungy is a terrific human being with great character, however everyone wants to give HIM credit for the Buc Superbowl victory and they forget WHAY he left the Bucs. He may have had a team with talented players but he was NOT winning. For some reason he did not get the job done. Gruden did. Dungy continued to develope as a coach, maybe he corrected some of his short comings he had with the Bucs. He thus organized another very talented team with the Colts and was successful. Give John Gruden the respect he deserves.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

But wait - if I owned the Bucs - Tony would still be coach and the Bucs would be in the playoff right now.

Yeah in your own mind...You have NO idea what would happen. John Gruden had talented players that were there with Tony Dungy and they just could not win under his coaching. John Gruden stepped up and finished the job. I think Tony Dungy saw his short comings and perfected that when he went to the Colts. The way the players click together and their efforts have just as much to do with the sucess and failure of a team as does the coaching. It's getting the right combination that matters. Everytime the Bucs lose it's Grudens fault, and when they win it must be because of a past coach...blah blah blah. It's not simple, it's not black and white.