[Bob Tanner]

They didn't waste any time putting out a justification, did they?

If anyone wants to read the usual NA__AR corporate line of defense in Montoya, here it is, direct from NA__AR unofficial mouthpiece, Scene Daily, where never is heard a discouraging word:
Jeff Gluck: No way NASCAR didn't want Juan Pablo Montoya to win at Indy - Sprint Cup Series | NASCAR Racing News - SceneDaily.com

Who knows, you might even believe it?

[WestCoast]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Who knows, you might even believe it?

I picked him to win, but it looks like he got too excited and screwed up.
Just the facts...
What NASCAR has is a 5 mph cushion. If the speed limit in the pits is 55, NASCAR will allow you to go 60 – Montoya was clocked going 60.06 and 60.11 in the pits, therefore penalized.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by WestCoast

I picked him to win, but it looks like he got too excited and screwed up.
Just the facts...
What NASCAR has is a 5 mph cushion. If the speed limit in the pits is 55, NASCAR will allow you to go 60 – Montoya was clocked going 60.06 and 60.11 in the pits, therefore penalized.

From an article I read today IRT NA__AR credibility, Richard petty is quoted:
Even Petty, the seven-time Cup champion, agreed that NASCAR deliberately affected results: “What they do try to rig is from time to time throw cautions to make the race closer,” he told The New York Times in 2007. “They don’t care who wins. They’ve got no control over who wins. But they want somebody racing to win instead of somebody just motoring away from everybody.”

That’s exactly what Montoya was doing on Sunday.


I marginally disagree with the "They don’t care who wins" part (I believe that they would have preferred Hendrick's Fifty-Three Year Old win because of the orgasmic media reaction which would have followed, but that's only conjecture) but I think anyone who doesn't believe NA__AR manipulates the outcomes, as Richard describes, is kind of naive.

BTW, the full article which contains the above quote, can be found at: Viv Bernstein - Keeping Score - NASCAR’s credibility gap - True/Slant

[Racer Duck]

I can understand (and agree) that NASCAR will throw cautions to tighten up the field. And the double file restart will/has introduce a new "tightness" for the field.

But the timing loops are automatic .. they're run off a transponder in the car psssing over a wire in the pavement (or devices at the side of the track) .. and the whole thing is recorded by computers. I'm not saying it's impossible to manipulate, but it does take more than a few seconds to do so, and if the results were being manipulated... well let me fall back to Mike Helton's classic response: "we just aren't that smart."

In defense of my assertion, and as evidence that they "aren't that smart" let me offer a single example: NASCAR.COM. It does everything .. including breaking every rule for a "good, user friendly website".

[DOF_power]

In they would have just shown the timing/speed live there wouldn't have been any issues or conspiracy theories.

[saltysenior]

since when is it become acceptable to the racers or race fans for a track or a sanctioning body to throw out a caution whenever they feel like it,for their own benefit only.......it leaves the conspiracy door wide open...

[wingkey1]

"Unofficial mouthpiece", while interesting still leaves us (the mouse and I) a bit in wonder as to why nothing as yet has been heard from Felix and company. Maybe they've seen/recieved the verification that satisfies?

Sure has been silent from the "victims".

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by saltysenior

since when is it become acceptable to the racers or race fans for a track or a sanctioning body to throw out a caution whenever they feel like it,for their own benefit only.......it leaves the conspiracy door wide open...

Can I get an "AMEN!" on this one? I agree.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

"Unofficial mouthpiece", while interesting still leaves us (the mouse and I) a bit in wonder as to why nothing as yet has been heard from Felix and company. Maybe they've seen/recieved the verification that satisfies?

Sure has been silent from the "victims".

when the reporters caught Felix in the pits, he said if NASCAR could show him the proof he'd be satisfied.

we can only surmise from their silence that they're satisfied.

[Motorsports One]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I marginally disagree with the "They don’t care who wins" part (I believe that they would have preferred Hendrick's Fifty-Three Year Old win because of the orgasmic media reaction which would have followed, but that's only conjecture) but I think anyone who doesn't believe NA__AR manipulates the outcomes, as Richard describes, is kind of naive.

On John Daly's blog, The Daly Planet, during the race, somebody said Montoya had been Wendell Scotted. If you've been watching NASCAR long enough, you'll understand the reference.

[Miz+Zou]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

when the reporters caught Felix in the pits, he said if NASCAR could show him the proof he'd be satisfied.

we can only surmise from their silence that they're satisfied.

Oh yeah i bet

[Bob Tanner]

Does it irk anyone but me that, seemingly, half the races they run in Cup end up with the fans not discussing the winners and how well they performed. Rather the conversation seems to center around the inability of the race car to pass for the lead, fuel milage, or (more likely it seems) some arbitrary and questionable call by NA__AR or one of its officials which directly affected the race's outcome. It just feels like we rarely discuss the actual racing in Cup. It seems to be much more prevalent in Cup than in the CTS.

I attend two or three local tracks in on the Gulf Coast on a regular basis and I can count the number of times I've left a local race feeling the track really screwed someone or the racing was mediocre due to the cars themselves, on the fingers of one hand.

NA__AR is a GREAT BIG professional organization. Why does it continue to operate with all the expertise of a Friday night poker game run in the back of Bubba's Garage? Why does it continue to do things, season after season; race after race, which fuel the fires of conspiracy? If they can do it on a local level, why can't NA__AR do it on a national one?

Is it because it's a touring series? Does ARCA, CRA, Hooters Cup inspire the questionable decisions that NA__AR does? Yeah, the management (I hesitate to call them "leaders" using good leadership principles) of IRL and F1, FIA and FOTA are shaky and the IRL and F1 cars are pretty generic. Passing, especially in F1, is at a premium, I know but there doesn't seem to be the regular post race confusion and distaste I see in NA__AR.

This just sucks!

[Miz+Zou]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Does it irk anyone but me that, seemingly, half the races they run in Cup end up with the fans not discussing the winners and how well they performed. Rather the conversation seems to center around the inability of the race car to pass for the lead, fuel milage, or (more likely it seems) some arbitrary and questionable call by NA__AR or one of its officials which directly affected the race's outcome. It just feels like we rarely discuss the actual racing in Cup. It seems to be much more prevalent in Cup than in the CTS.

I attend two or three local tracks in on the Gulf Coast on a regular basis and I can count the number of times I've left a local race feeling the track really screwed someone or the racing was mediocre due to the cars themselves, on the fingers of one hand.

NA__AR is a GREAT BIG professional organization. Why does it continue to operate with all the expertise of a Friday night poker game run in the back of Bubba's Garage? Why does it continue to do things, season after season; race after race, which fuel the fires of conspiracy? If they can do it on a local level, why can't NA__AR do it on a national one?

Is it because it's a touring series? Does ARCA, CRA, Hooters Cup inspire the questionable decisions that NA__AR does? Yeah, the management (I hesitate to call them "leaders" using good leadership principles) of IRL and F1, FIA and FOTA are shaky and the IRL and F1 cars are pretty generic. Passing, especially in F1, is at a premium, I know but there doesn't seem to be the regular post race confusion and distaste I see in NA__AR.

This just sucks!

Someones got to drive the car right? i mean fuel mileage isn't everything

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Motorsports One

On John Daly's blog, The Daly Planet, during the race, somebody said Montoya had been Wendell Scotted. If you've been watching NASCAR long enough, you'll understand the reference.

I missed that in John's article (But it's plain he's no fan of neither Mikey or ESPN's brand of coverage), but it does look a little like it, doesn't it? I wouldn't go so far as to say that it was because he's Colombian but...??? Quite an inference, wasn't it?

The thing that amazed me was that I didn't hear much, or read much about it after the race. But it seemed as though the NA__AR apologists started throwing out excuses as to why NA__AR didn't give the penalty with malice almost immediately.

[Motorsports One]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I missed that in John's article (But it's plain he's no fan of neither Mikey or ESPN's brand of coverage), but it does look a little like it, doesn't it? I wouldn't go so far as to say that it was because he's Colombian but...??? Quite an inference, wasn't it?

The thing that amazed me was that I didn't hear much, or read much about it after the race. But it seemed as though the NA__AR apologists started throwing out excuses as to why NA__AR didn't give the penalty with malice almost immediately.

Let me point out, just so you didn't read me wrong, it was a fan leaving that "Wendell Scotted" comment in the comments section of John's blog, not something John said about Montoya.

As for the speeding penalty itself, I tend to think NASCAR showed Sabates the proof he wanted and that was the end of it.