[bob101]

On trackside live tonight Mark Martin said there was no reason to change anything about the COT AT ALL! He said the racing this year has been too good to mess with....In response to talk about what people talked about at the NASCAR meeting with teams/drivers on Tuesday.

I guess you win 2 races you can say that....

I wonder how many fans agree with that assesment.

[mike honcho]

I sure don't

[Stewart Fan]

Yeah I don't know what The little Elf was thinking when he said that.

[Bob Tanner]

Does anyone remember Mark ever saying anything critical of NA__AR?

[jks812]

I'm not gonna say the car is perfect. But so far the racing has been better than it was last year. Could the car be improved? Of course. But as long as you have racing you'll have a car that could be improved.

[Jeffrey4396]

Originally Posted by jks812

I'm not gonna say the car is perfect. But so far the racing has been better than it was last year.

I agree, I think it will take time for the drivers and crews to get the feel of the car. By time I mean a couple of years. Remember changing the car can go both ways. It isn't a for sure thing it will make for better racing. I think I'd give this car to the end of the year, if things are not looking up then take the offseason to try some things. What if they change the car and we go back to square one and even worst racing.

I think the overall racing has been better, what I think people are missing is the photo finishes. We haven't had those in these new cars, but that doesn't mean the racing isn't good. Maybe double file restarts at the end of these things could help solve that, maybe it wont.

[Topgear]

I have really enjoyed the single file racing that the COT has brought us

[WestCoast]

Originally Posted by jks812

I'm not gonna say the car is perfect. But so far the racing has been better than it was last year. Could the car be improved? Of course. But as long as you have racing you'll have a car that could be improved.

I agree, "work in progress", there was never a perfect car or racing for that matter.

[bob101]

The racing sucks. I'm sorry for those that think it is "ok".

What happens EVERY WEEK except the plate tracks is the average driver finishes within plus or minus 5 spots of where he started and each week it rotates that maybe 5 drivers will be able to move up and down thru the field and actually pass.

Look at each races starting lineup and finishing lineup. Everything happens in the pits or qualifying. Then 5 guys (different each week) will actually be able to pass on the racetrack.

Once one of those 5 guys gets out in front he develops a multi car lead and stays that way till a caution.

Each week NASCAR releases how many green flag passes and how many passes under caution (on pit road) and caution passes are blowing green flag passes out of the water this year by a 2:1 ratio.

[kkfan91]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey4396

I think the overall racing has been better, what I think people are missing is the photo finishes. We haven't had those in these new cars, but that doesn't mean the racing isn't good. Maybe double file restarts at the end of these things could help solve that, maybe it wont.

If I remember the first few COT races ended side by side

[WestCoast]

Originally Posted by bob101

The racing sucks. I'm sorry for those that think it is "ok".

Well OK, but if we were having this conversation 10, 20 or 30 years ago, the story would be the same.
Some would always say that the "current" racing sucks.

Back in the day, half the field didn’t finish due to mechanical problems, or the leader won by 3 laps over the 2nd place finisher.

[Stewart Fan]

Originally Posted by Topgear

I have really enjoyed the single file racing that the COT has brought us

Me too, and the fact that it's either one of like 4 drivers at the most that win! I remember the days back in the 90's when I thought.......If only I could fall asleep during these races I would be really happy!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by WestCoast

Well OK, but if we were having this conversation 10, 20 or 30 years ago, the story would be the same.
Some would always say that the "current" racing sucks.

Back in the day, half the field didn’t finish due to mechanical problems, or the leader won by 3 laps over the 2nd place finisher.

Just human nature. We all want something that either no longer or never did exist. I do think there are many things that a majority could agree on as for changes we'd like to see, but then again who are we ???

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by WestCoast

Well OK, but if we were having this conversation 10, 20 or 30 years ago, the story would be the same.
Some would always say that the "current" racing sucks.

Back in the day, half the field didn’t finish due to mechanical problems, or the leader won by 3 laps over the 2nd place finisher.

I'm sorry but I'm going to respectfully disagree with your above concerning the theory that "if we were having this discussion..." I was there (30 years ago) and I never heard much discussion about what might have been considered then "The good old days." The vast majority of the people who went to were race fans and motor heads who loved cars.

Yeah, people would complain about rain outs and how Ford, then MOPAR, was dominating but they realized it was racing and accepted it.

Maybe someone else remembers it differently but I don't remember fans becoming disgruntled with the series itself until the mid 80's, when NASCAR started to try and manipulate things with allowing wholesale body modifications for "parity." This was the beginning of the metamorphosis from NASCAR to NA__AR. NASCAR always looked at parity as its goal but they regulated it through what the manufacturers offered, not through arbitrary rules and redesigning the car itself.

I'll agree that there was a lot of grousing in open wheel 30+ years ago. Some disliked the Kurtis roadster bodies, the advent of stock blocks and (,e included here) the influx of the rear engined cars. But open wheel is another story.

There were also dissenters in drag racing when the single engined dragsters gave way to the multi-engined dragsters which gave way to the current rear engined cars.

The major difference, as I see it, is that in open wheel and in drag racing there was never a feeling that the sanctioning body was manipulating the racing itself and concocting finishes. Race fans understood that some races are just naturally more exciting than others and sometimes one car with just blow away all the competition. It was still racing.

I also reject your thesis that the measure of a race is the number of cars finishing on the lead lap. To me a good race is one which is held on a track which can provide side-by-side racing, which is run under rules which favor no particular team or driver, run with a car which can be built with a degree of ingenuity while complying to the rules.

I don't see NA__AR meeting any of these ideals. Instead they have turned racing into a made-for-TV, personality-driven, WWF-type production.

But those are just my feelings. Obviously I'm in the minority but I can live with that.

[WestCoast]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Yeah, people would complain about rain outs and how Ford, then MOPAR, was dominating but they realized it was racing and accepted it.

Race fans understood that some races are just naturally more exciting than others and sometimes one car with just blow away all the competition. It was still racing.

You’re probably right, people just accepted what was offered to them without knowing any better. You can also wrap the demise of NA auto industry into that reality.

But, I find it hard to believe that when half the field brakes down, the fans of those teams or the teams themselves just right it off as "that’s racing" and don’t demand similar parts/product as the guy that wins every race by a wide margin.
The racing was unusually tilted towards a handful of teams (the chosen), as show by the (unattainable victory counts) by today’s standards.
Sure, I think today’s cars are ugly, but the enthuses is on the Driver and Team to produce a win, as opposed to a superior car as in the past.