[Bob Tanner]

Sometimes when a NA__AR spokesman talks, they speak in circles and confound us. David Poole explains, today, the Chosen 35 Rule status in words we can all understand. The following is a partial cut and pasted from his column in today's Charlotte Observer. This is exactly how NA__AR feels, spoken in everyday language:
Fans' lost cause - The top-35 rule

It's probably not going to be an issue this year because it doesn't look like there will be 35 fully funded teams in the Cup series. But NASCAR has shown no sign of eliminating the rule or changing the number of teams guaranteed starting spots in each week's race.

Some of you want to believe that the top-35 rule is to blame for there being fewer fully funded teams this year, but there is simply no direct link. There are several teams that don't have sponsors and probably won't race this year that finished 2008 in the top 35.

The sponsorship crisis in the sport is largely a function of timing. If your deal was up after 2008, or if your performance has been such that you weren't able to land more than a one-year deal to start with, the timing of the economic meltdown that reaches into all aspects of American business was such that you're lucky if you came through the offseason intact.

Fans keep talking about how they want to go back to when the fastest 43 cars in each week's qualifying made the race, no matter who that sends home. The problem with that is that is has never, ever been that way.

Even before the era of "provisionals," NASCAR had all kinds of sponsor or promoter options it used to make sure the biggest names that showed up went racing.

It does nobody any good to send home a Dale Earnhardt Jr. or a Jimmie Johnson, and that's not going to happen. Ever.

Let it go.

I don't know if you've sold out, David, or if you've just rolled over and given up. Either way is sad. Not attributing the lower car counts in all three major series is just plain wrong thinking and ignoring the facts.

It isn't all the economy. If you'd bother to check, the car counts reached a peak the year after The Chosen 35 Rule went into effect. That was because of plans in effect the previous year. The next year the counts began to dwindle. The current economic problems just sped up the process.

David, I was around when these " all kinds of sponsor or promoter options it used to make sure the biggest names that showed up went racing." were in place. You've drank too much of NA__AR Kool-Aid. There was, in a few races, a "promoter's option," where the local promoter could add one driver to the field (usually, but not always, done to let a local driver race against the big boys). NASCAR always kept the option open to increase the size of the field if a driver or sponsor whom they favoured didn't qualify fast enough.

But, except for rain-outs, to my knowledge, the races always specified a minimum number of starting spots and the fastest made those spots, unless the field was set by points. There were additional spots added to the field. Faster cars WERE NOT sent home!

Great job of giving us misinformation, Mr. Poole.

[WestCoast]

He’s absolutely right, people want to see the stars race in the big leagues, not the unknown one race wonders. This is the "reality" of professional sports.
If that weren’t the case, fans would flock to ARCA and other low-level series (which they don’t). So in theory, the system works since the paying fans support it.

I cant think of anything more detrimental than the field fillers who "start and park" for a quick $buck$, and have no intention of putting on a show or being part of it.

[BiscuitMan]

I read David Poole's article in the Charlotte Observer. He has some good points, but I have to disagree on this top 35 rule. I believe NASCAR should NOT use the top 35 rule for the Daytona 500. This is considered "the great American race". As such, it should be open to all racers, not just the top 35 guys that were around last year and past champions that car owners get to put their rolling billboards on the track.

Let's say the IndyCar champion, the Rolex champion, and the Formula One champion decide to run the great American race, the Daytona 500. I think that would make for interesting competition for race fans, as long as they can qualify on speed. Or, in the qualifying races. But, when there are such few available slots, race teams can't afford to "chance" the expense of building a car and staffing a program to make the attempt.

If NASCAR would take away this top 35 limitation the Daytona 500 entry list would grow with high performing drivers from all over. But, we will probably end up with about 50 cars attempting to qualify at Daytona this year. Fifteen of those cars will most likely be leftovers from last year. That's the cars that the top 35 teams could not get to go fast on the track. So, they sold them to the "also ran" race teams.

All this does not paint a good picture to me.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by BiscuitMan

I read David Poole's article in the Charlotte Observer. He has some good points, but I have to disagree on this top 35 rule. I believe NASCAR should NOT use the top 35 rule for the Daytona 500. This is considered "the great American race". As such, it should be open to all racers, not just the top 35 guys that were around last year and past champions that car owners get to put their rolling billboards on the track.

Let's say the IndyCar champion, the Rolex champion, and the Formula One champion decide to run the great American race, the Daytona 500. I think that would make for interesting competition for race fans, as long as they can qualify on speed. Or, in the qualifying races. But, when there are such few available slots, race teams can't afford to "chance" the expense of building a car and staffing a program to make the attempt.

If NASCAR would take away this top 35 limitation the Daytona 500 entry list would grow with high performing drivers from all over. But, we will probably end up with about 50 cars attempting to qualify at Daytona this year. Fifteen of those cars will most likely be leftovers from last year. That's the cars that the top 35 teams could not get to go fast on the track. So, they sold them to the "also ran" race teams.

All this does not paint a good picture to me.

How Poole can neglect to assign at least part of the current lack of teams and sponsor to The Chosen 35 Rule completely escapes me.

Also, and you've followed the sport long enough to verify what I say, B-Man, is how he gives the impression of there always having been a Chosen 35, in one form or another. I have racked my memory and have gone back and researched a bunch of old race records this afternoon and can find NO EXAMPLE of a faster car being sent home to make room for a slower car, unless the car sent home was disqualified for rule infraction.

As far as I'm concerned, Poole has sold out on this one. (Other ways too, but I won't go into that now)

[WestCoast]

If you think today's points system is confusing, read on...
Ah, the good ol days
__________________________

From the beginning of championship series until 1967 championship points were based on prize money purses. Races with lesser purses paid fewer points than races with bigger purses.
First NASCAR point system used for championship from 1949 till 1951 awarded points on basis 10 points for the 1st place, 9 pts for 2nd, 8 pts for 3rd and so on, multiplied by 0.05*race purse (Race worth $4000 paid 200 points to the winner, 180 for 2nd place...). No info about how many points were given to drivers finishing below 10th place.
From 1952 till 1967 NASCAR point system was based on linear scale for first 25 positions: 25-24-23-... Coefficients changed, but were always depending on prize money. From 25th place down there were awarded the same number of points.
In 1968 NASCAR started to award points depending on race distance, not prize money. Point system was 50-49-48-... multiplied by 1 for events to 249 miles, 2 for events 250-399 miles and 3 for events 400 miles and more. System stopped from 50th place. This system was in use until the end of 1971 season.
In 1972, together with shortening the schedule, point system was also modified. Basic points of 100-98-96-... were awarded for each race. Additionally, lap points were awarded for the number of laps completed. Tracks under 1 mile, 0.25 points a lap; 1-mile tracks, 0.50; 1.3-mile track (Darlington), 0.70; 1.5-mile tracks, 0.75; 2-mile tracks (Michigan), 1.00; tracks 2.5 miles and over, 1.25. This system was also used in 1973.
In 1974 points system was simple: Total money winnings from all track purses (qualifying and contingency awards did not count), in dollars, multiplied by the number of races started, and the resulting figure divided by 1,000 determined the number of points earned. By the end of the season Richard Petty had such a big lead in points, that he increased it even by finishing 30th while his main rival Cale Yarborough made a top-5 (Remember - the money was multiplied by the number of races started. Even if Cale made more money in one particular race, when the total money was multiplied by e. g. 27, the difference between the two leaders could also increase in comparison with situation after race 26).
Current NASCAR's points system was developed in 1975 following years of trouble in trying to develop a points system -- from 1949 until 1971, six different systems were used, and in 1972, NASCAR used a different system each year for the next three years.
That type of inconsistency, which included a system which rewarded most mileage for the entire season, and then another year where mileage and finishing positions were counted, favoured larger circuits, and some fans complained about a champion who only won one race. That resulted in a 1974 ill-fated attempt at basing the points system on money and starts. Even though one driver won consecutive races, his opponent who had won the big money races had scored more points.
Bob Latford, a former public relations official at Lowe's Motor Speedway, devised NASCAR's most popular points system, which was adopted in 1975, which NASCAR used two different versions for their series from 1982 until 1998. In the system, the winner received 175 points, second 170 points, and other positions exactly the same as the current points system.
Until 1998, the Busch Series points system offered 180 points for the winner, but no bonuses for leading laps. The same was true for the Craftsman Truck Series until the end of that season, when NASCAR decided to standardise the points system for their series.
One complaint about the points system was how a driver could finish second and receive an equal number of points as a race winner, which was possible if the driver who led the most laps finished second. NASCAR fixed the problem in 2004 by adding five points to the winner.

[Bob Tanner]

I agree, West Coast. Those were the days when they awarded point by how long the track was and how long the race was. But, if you want even more confusion, look at some of the engine regulations of the '60. I won't bother to look up the exact specs but the Reader's Digest version was with some cars (primarily MOPAR) you could run one size engine in one model, but a smaller engine in another model. The engine all makes ran was dependent upon the car's wheelbase.

I don't like Poole's 500 point proposal. never have and probably never will because it tilts the table completely toward the handful of teams who have the ability to win each week. His rule would virtually ensure that the same teams are in the playoff each year. My theory is to give more points for 1st thru 5th and zero points for finishers below 33rd place in each race. That might keep the "rolling wrecks" off the track.

But, back to topic, I personally think the Chosen 35 Rule is the worst rule NA__AR currently enforces. It's arbitrary, capricious and creates two different cases of entrants; those who enter to have good finishes, and those who enter just to make the field. This forces supposedly equal competitors to use completely different tactics on any given race weekend. But what do I know, eh?

[oncea3fan]

I'd like to see at minium, the fastest 42 and last years champ make the first 5 races. after that if they want the top 35 I could deal with it better.that atleast newe teams have a chance to make it in each week, and it also will keep qualifing interesting.

but the fastest each week would be the best.

[LSC9901]

It does nobody any good to send home a Dale Earnhardt Jr. or a Jimmie Johnson, and that's not going to happen. Ever.

Lets be real here. The chances of it happening are slim and with today's mega teams slim is even slimmer than slim from 10 years ago. Furthermore from the point of view of a race fan, who cares if they go home ?? I know, I know ... the sponsor cares. For me the idea of racing is all about the fastest car winning the race ... for the most part. I know this comment falls right back into the one that everyone makes but for me it rings true. Let the 43 fastest cars race. Bill Elliott has won a championship in over 20 years yet he still gets special dispensation.

The first time one of the "stars of NASCAR" went home because they were to slow would more than likely awaken the team. They'd find out in a heartbeat where the problem was and fix it. Maybe even the likes of Tony Eury Jr would get sent packing.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

It does nobody any good to send home a Dale Earnhardt Jr. or a Jimmie Johnson, and that's not going to happen. Ever.

Lets be real here. The chances of it happening are slim and with today's mega teams slim is even slimmer than slim from 10 years ago. Furthermore from the point of view of a race fan, who cares if they go home ?? I know, I know ... the sponsor cares. For me the idea of racing is all about the fastest car winning the race ... for the most part. I know this comment falls right back into the one that everyone makes but for me it rings true. Let the 43 fastest cars race. Bill Elliott has won a championship in over 20 years yet he still gets special dispensation.

The first time one of the "stars of NASCAR" went home because they were to slow would more than likely awaken the team. They'd find out in a heartbeat where the problem was and fix it. Maybe even the likes of Tony Eury Jr would get sent packing.

Can I get an AMEN!!!, Brother Steve?

[oncea3fan]

amen!!!!!!!!!

[trollmc08]

All I can say is "LET THE BOYS RACE"

[wardfan]

The top 35 rule sucks period. Make them all quaify every week. Does anyone really think the stands are going to empty out just because JJ or J Gordon miss the race because they didn't have to actually qualify? Teams can't get sponsers because they are handicapped from the start because of the 35 rule. So what if once in a while a "star" doesn't make the race. At least we know its about the racing & not simply driving a billboard around the track.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by wardfan

The top 35 rule sucks period. Make them all quaify every week. Does anyone really think the stands are going to empty out just because JJ or J Gordon miss the race because they didn't have to actually qualify? Teams can't get sponsers because they are handicapped from the start because of the 35 rule. So what if once in a while a "star" doesn't make the race. At least we know its about the racing & not simply driving a billboard around the track.

I do agree 10000%

[wardfan]

Can't you just see it - I bought this ticket months ago but since my driver didn't quailfy for the race I want a refund. I've spent all this money for tickets, hotel, gas, food, etc. and since my driver didn't qualify I'm not staying to watch this stupid race.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wardfan

Can't you just see it - I bought this ticket months ago but since my driver didn't quailfy for the race I want a refund. I've spent all this money for tickets, hotel, gas, food, etc. and since my driver didn't qualify I'm not staying to watch this stupid race.

You may joke about it (I sure hope that you are) but, rust me, there are any number of "fans" out there who would do exactly waht you say; ask for a refund.