[PenelopePitStop]

Am I the only one who thinks when there's a Competition Yellow, the cars should retain their spot when the Caution was thrown? They're forced to pit, so I don't understand why they gain or lose spots.

Just thinking ...










http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb098&pp=ZN

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Am I the only one who thinks when there's a Competition Yellow, the cars should retain their spot when the Caution was thrown? They're forced to pit, so I don't understand why they gain or lose spots.

Just thinking ...

No doubt there will be differing points of view on this. it is a subject i question each time they have this type of yellow. My feeling is that since they are FORCED to go into the pits then I believe they should retain their position. I guess the only time I would agree that positions would be lost is if they raised the hood or something that would be totally out of the norm. Maybe that is why they do have to fight for their spots. If one teams decides to remove a rubber and lost 5 spots when other teams do tires and fuel why should they be penalized. I guess if they all had to change 4 and refuel only then maybe position retention would eb OK. Anything outside of what is mandated .... you're on your own ??????

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

No doubt there will be differing points of view on this. it is a subject i question each time they have this type of yellow. My feeling is that since they are FORCED to go into the pits then I believe they should retain their position. I guess the only time I would agree that positions would be lost is if they raised the hood or something that would be totally out of the norm. Maybe that is why they do have to fight for their spots. If one teams decides to remove a rubber and lost 5 spots when other teams do tires and fuel why should they be penalized. I guess if they all had to change 4 and refuel only then maybe position retention would eb OK. Anything outside of what is mandated .... you're on your own ??????

That makes sense.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

No doubt there will be differing points of view on this. it is a subject i question each time they have this type of yellow. My feeling is that since they are FORCED to go into the pits then I believe they should retain their position. I guess the only time I would agree that positions would be lost is if they raised the hood or something that would be totally out of the norm. Maybe that is why they do have to fight for their spots. If one teams decides to remove a rubber and lost 5 spots when other teams do tires and fuel why should they be penalized. I guess if they all had to change 4 and refuel only then maybe position retention would eb OK. Anything outside of what is mandated .... you're on your own ??????

Well..... I can't say I disagree...... It only seems fit, but, that's how we as fans see it..... You know, people who aren't influenced by money and power... atleast the most of us

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Well..... I can't say I disagree...... It only seems fit, but, that's how we as fans see it..... You know, people who aren't influenced by money and power... atleast the most of us

Well I must admit that I am, of course I have none of either so ...... I'm not influenced or influential !!!

[wardfan]

Since the competition caution is to check tires then they should only be allowed to take tires. They already tell them they can't take fuel.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by wardfan

Since the competition caution is to check tires then they should only be allowed to take tires. They already tell them they can't take fuel.

I think the point of the question is whether their running order should change .. personally I don't think it should .. but then if I were the Czar of NASCAR, there'd be lots of things different...

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

.. but then if I were the Czar of NASCAR, there'd be lots of things different...

and if a frog had wings......

[wardfan]

What I meant & didn't finish saying is they take tire only & keep their position as they pit.

[stroker crank]

Why are there Competition Yellows in the first place? Could it be the tire people have given the teams a tire that might wear out before the first round of stops? Maybe it's time to get some new tire people. Or maybe it's time to use race cars with some down force , that won't wear out tires prematurely.

[BiscuitMan]

Originally Posted by stroker crank

Why are there Competition Yellows in the first place? Could it be the tire people have given the teams a tire that might wear out before the first round of stops? Maybe it's time to get some new tire people. Or maybe it's time to use race cars with some down force , that won't wear out tires prematurely.

I'm with you Stroker. But, I'm more inclined to eliminate the "Competition Yellow" in the first place. All NASCAR has to do is tell the teams/drivers in the pre-race meeting about their concern for safety of the tires. Caution the teams to back off from aggressive camber settings and let the situation take its course. If some stupid crew chief is not smart enough to set up the car for the "situation", then maybe that teams needs to get another crew chief. Most of these guys know the first 50 laps does not decide the outcome of the race. Its the last 50 laps. They have got to get their car and driver in a position to race that last 50 laps. That's the time to be agressive.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by BiscuitMan

I'm with you Stroker. But, I'm more inclined to eliminate the "Competition Yellow" in the first place. All NASCAR has to do is tell the teams/drivers in the pre-race meeting about their concern for safety of the tires. Caution the teams to back off from aggressive camber settings and let the situation take its course. If some stupid crew chief is not smart enough to set up the car for the "situation", then maybe that teams needs to get another crew chief. Most of these guys know the first 50 laps does not decide the outcome of the race. Its the last 50 laps. They have got to get their car and driver in a position to race that last 50 laps. That's the time to be agressive.

Gotta agree with that!

However, camber is not something you diddle with during the race .. it takes far too long to adjust and any gains you'd get from making a camber (or caster) adjustment will be offset by the laps you'd loose doing so. And, in today's NASCAR, races are decided in seconds and parts of seconds, not minutes nor laps.

In NASCAR the major problem with handling and tire wear can be attributed to 2 things: the weight of the cars and the speeds at which they run. Reducing either would help the problems tremendously as would having different tire manufacturers.

I'm not advocating there be competing brands at the track, though. There's way too much downside to having mixed rubber compounds on the track. But what if the tire companies "bid" on providing tires for specific races/tracks? I see several benefits to this, not the least of which is the tire companies competition to provide better tires for specific situations. Then fiascoes like the 2008 Brickyard would spell doom for the tire company who failed to deliver.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Gotta agree with that!

However, camber is not something you diddle with during the race .. it takes far too long to adjust and any gains you'd get from making a camber (or caster) adjustment will be offset by the laps you'd loose doing so. And, in today's NASCAR, races are decided in seconds and parts of seconds, not minutes nor laps.

In NASCAR the major problem with handling and tire wear can be attributed to 2 things: the weight of the cars and the speeds at which they run. Reducing either would help the problems tremendously as would having different tire manufacturers.

I'm not advocating there be competing brands at the track, though. There's way too much downside to having mixed rubber compounds on the track. But what if the tire companies "bid" on providing tires for specific races/tracks? I see several benefits to this, not the least of which is the tire companies competition to provide better tires for specific situations. Then fiascoes like the 2008 Brickyard would spell doom for the tire company who failed to deliver.

The voice of reason speaks. Too bad it won't be heard by NA__AR. I especially like the idea of reducing speeds.

I also like the idea of each tire manufacturer bidding on individual tracks and/or races. IF NA__AR would implement its new testing procedure and then stick to it and/or enforce it, it might go a long way toward making the playing field a bit more level.

But, it will never, ever happen because if NA__AR were do do such a thing (bidding for tracks/races) how could NA__AR expect to reap the sizable rewards of having "The Official Tire of NA__AR?"

But then, what do I know?

[wingkey1]

Questions here that do not have immediate answer to. OK to label here "too lazy to do the research" cause 'tis accurate.

In all cases of a predetermined competition yellow that is tire wear related, are teams allowed only a check/change of tires or may other changes be made?

Has there ever been a case of a predetermined competition yellow that is not tire wear related?

Has there ever been the requirement to change tires under a competition yellow or is a wear check the only requirement?

If a "wear check" is the only requirement, should a/any team that got the set right (i.e on inspection the wear is excellent and no tire change is necessary) not be allowed to advance their position?

**********************************************

Have been involved in competition yellows associated with the track surface. Not tire wear related at all. A decision had to be communicated to the competitors by the governing body in advance as to just what they could/could not do under this competition yellow. Be interesting to see/understand what decision might be thought best for this example of a competition yellow.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

If a "wear check" is the only requirement, should a/any team that got the set right (i.e on inspection the wear is excellent and no tire change is necessary) not be allowed to advance their position?

.

Interesting question, Wing. The answer, of course, is nebulous and depends wholly on the perspective of the answerer.

The only thing I can say is my own personal opinion that passes done not on the track, under racing conditions, are suspect, in my eyes. NA__AR already has way too many passes in the pits, in relation to actual passes on the track

And yes. I know that to most, Cup racing is a "One big, [sometimes] happy family, team concept. (rah, rah, sis-boom bah)" This supposedly makes passing in the pit "exciting."

It isn't to me.