[DOF_power]

August 6, 2008

The Detroit Three get down to the business of NASCAR.

By Peter M. De Lorenzo

Detroit. Leading up to the Brickyard 400 at Indianapolis a couple of weeks ago - and in intense discussions ever since - the Detroit manufacturers have been dissecting their involvement in NASCAR with a fervor not seen since, well, ever. NASCAR officials got an in-person earful at The Speedway from various Detroit auto company executives in attendance. The message? The financial numbers aren't good, cutbacks are a certainty - and that means our NASCAR programs too - and we will be discussing what shape our future involvement with NASCAR will take in the coming weeks. Whether or not Brian France and Mike Helton & Co. were surprised or not is immaterial (they shouldn't have been), because NASCAR management left Indy with the realization that for the first time in memory Detroit's involvement wasn't going to be "automatic" for the foreseeable future. And it was sobering for NASCAR and its teams.

When I said everything was on the table a couple of weeks ago for these Detroit manufacturers and their NASCAR programs, I wasn't kidding, and now these discussions have taken on an even more intense urgency. National advertising, promotional support at the tracks, direct payments to teams and personal services contracts with the drivers are all being put under the microscope. But that's just the beginning, because beyond the budget cuts, the Detroit manufacturers are using the opportunity brought on by their dire financial straits to make NASCAR listen to some serious proposals.

What are these proposals? Here are the main issues that GM, Ford and Chrysler plan on discussing in the very near future with NASCAR management in meetings to be held in Detroit:

1. Brand Recognition. It's no secret that there are factions within these Detroit manufacturers who are none too pleased with NASCAR's "CoT" and the fact that literally all brand distinctiveness has been eliminated with the "spec" bodywork required in Sprint Cup. The Hot Idea? The Detroit manufacturers want their "pony" cars to be made eligible for the Sprint Cup in 2010, with stock bodywork dimensions, no less. They want more of a direct connection between what they run in NASCAR and what they sell on the street. That means putting all of the CoT safety developments within the production body dimensions of the Camaro, Mustang and Challenger, with an entry from Toyota to be determined. It also means a return to NASCAR's old days, when every race weekend's technical inspection became a forum for lobbying and intense carrying-on by the manufacturers searching for an advantage. The reality? NASCAR got wind of this idea at Indy and suggested that the Nationwide Series would be a better forum for "pony" cars, but the manufacturers have already dismissed that idea out of hand. They want their "pony" cars to have a raison d'etre, and one way to do it is to race them in NASCAR, which would do wonders to enhance their marketing programs. That's why the manufacturers want them in Sprint Cup by 2010. NASCAR, on the other hand, feels a nightmare coming on while envisioning trying to balance the manufacturers' competitiveness with each other on the track. They better get used to it.

2. Elevate the technology. This is something that NASCAR better get on board with, because the manufacturers are more than adamant about it. They're tired of NASCAR's head-in-sand approach when it comes to applying technology to Sprint Cup. On the manufacturers' wish list? Direct fuel-injection, overhead cams and alternative fuel. And that means walking away from "spec" engines too - and doing away with the common bore centers that NASCAR is requiring. And the fact that NASCAR just went to unleaded racing fuel not long ago isn't cutting it with Detroit, either. They're thinking E85 instead. The reality? NASCAR will argue that these kinds of changes will add to the cost for the teams, but that argument isn't likely to hold water with the Detroit manufacturers. NASCAR's "yester-tech" comfort zone with 60s automotive technology will have to finally be put out to pasture, if they want the Detroit manufacturers to stay interested, that is.

3. A total reevaluation of the road racing program. Right now NASCAR has two road races on their schedule, but two of the three Detroit manufacturers want to add at least two more road races to the schedule without adding to the total number of races (see the next point below). Not only that, these manufacturers want all-new cars mandated for the road races, meaning that special cars would have to be built just for the road racing events. What these cars would look like and what their specifications would be is yet to be determined, but suffice to say there's room for a radical interpretation with this aspect of Detroit's NASCAR "wish" list. The reality? One of the reasons NASCAR went to their vaunted CoT was to eliminate the need for having to build different cars for different tracks (super speedways, intermediate ovals, short tracks, road races, etc.), so this proposal is likely to meet intense pushback from NASCAR management. But then again, if cooler heads prevail in Daytona Beach, they might just realize that if the manufacturers are enthused about this then it might just be better to go with the flow, because the alternative is not looking so appealing at this point.

4. Cut the schedule. To the manufacturers this is a "no-brainer." You want to cut costs? Then cut the number of races, which will allow the manufacturers to reduce their overall expenditures. One manufacturer in particular has already suggested eliminating at least four races from the overall schedule, while adding two more road races, which means effectively cutting six existing races from the schedule. The easiest solution to get there? Do away with the double visits to certain tracks during the season. The reality? Them's fighting words in Daytona Beach. Nobody messes with their schedule and nobody tells them what to do when it comes to their tracks. We'll see about that.

5. Eliminate the truck series. The implosion of the casual-use pickup truck market in the U.S. does not bode well for NASCAR's truck series. And the fact that NASCAR hasn't been able to land a sponsor to replace Craftsman doesn't bode well for the truck series either. The Detroit manufacturers wouldn't mind if NASCAR's truck series went bye-bye. As a matter of fact, one of the manufacturers has already let it be known that they're as good as through with the truck series. The reality? NASCAR may not have much choice here.

6. Make the Nationwide Series a true driver development series. The majority of the Detroit Three want the Nationwide Series to be strictly a driver development series, which means Sprint Cup drivers wouldn't be allowed to compete. Sounds simple enough, right? The reality? NASCAR doesn't take too kindly to people telling them what they can or cannot do when it comes to a competitive aspect in one of their series, but who knows? Once NASCAR gets use to grappling with all of these other ideas from the manufacturers, this might be the easiest one to go along with.

These are the key proposals - at least the "high hard ones" anyway - that the Detroit Three plan on discussing with NASCAR in the next few weeks.

One thing you can be sure of in all of this? It's going to get very interesting from here on out.

[DOF_power]

The truck series should stay as it has the best racing and is the closest thing to a development series.
Other than that these proposals make sense.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

August 6, 2008


5. Eliminate the truck series. The implosion of the casual-use pickup truck market in the U.S. does not bode well for NASCAR's truck series. And the fact that NASCAR hasn't been able to land a sponsor to replace Craftsman doesn't bode well for the truck series either. The Detroit manufacturers wouldn't mind if NASCAR's truck series went bye-bye. As a matter of fact, one of the manufacturers has already let it be known that they're as good as through with the truck series. The reality? NASCAR may not have much choice here.

To me that would just be stupid. How much sense does it make to take away the best racing of the weekend? Here I was thinking that Nascar would do something about the truck series because they wouldn't want them to be better than the cup races ( which they are). But instead it's the manufacturers wanting to do away with it? Dang if they take away the trucks, my weekends will become very boring. The trucks are the only races that I actually look forward to and watch from start to finish. I just can't seem to do that with the other 2 series.

[Bob Tanner]

I completely, totally and absolutely agree with #'s 1,2,4 and 6. I don't see any basis for discussion. Just do it!

I agree with #3 with this caveat: Look at either remodeling the existing road courses to accommodate the larger stock-bodied cars or build new road courses designed for stock cars. A lot of some really good road curses today are just too narrow for NA__AR. Lime Rock, Mosport and Mid Ohio for example.

I see the logic in #5 but I believe the current drop in interest in pick up trucks is temporary. I just can't envision an entire generation of roughed individuals giving up their PU's. (Well, considering the "woosification" our society is currently undergoing, that might not be a correct assumption?)

I agree with you. The CTS is now the closes thing to actual racing we have in NA__AR. Leave it alone and keep the Cup Raiders out of it.

[Mindwarp]

I agree with pretty much all of it except, as noted by others, the elimination of the CTS. That's good racing, don't mess with it.
-Get the Sprint guys out of Nationwaide, yes.
-Less races in the season? Sure.
-2 more road races? As long as 1 is in the chase, sure.
-Pony cars in Sprint? I'm split on that one (mor elike 60/40 in favor). It would be nice to see some variations in the cars but let's see what the CoT can deliver first. It's new and still being tinkered with. If 2009 still shows the same growing pains then by all means, consider a change.

[Loki309]

Originally Posted by Mindwarp

I agree with pretty much all of it except, as noted by others, the elimination of the CTS. That's good racing, don't mess with it.
-Get the Sprint guys out of Nationwaide, yes.
-Less races in the season? Sure.
-2 more road races? As long as 1 is in the chase, sure.
-Pony cars in Sprint? I'm split on that one (mor elike 60/40 in favor). It would be nice to see some variations in the cars but let's see what the CoT can deliver first. It's new and still being tinkered with. If 2009 still shows the same growing pains then by all means, consider a change.

This may be a first and a last, but everything that Mindwarp said...I totally agree with...I feel sick to my stomach now

[loco4pablo]

If I were the head of a manufacturer, I would be spitting mad over the COT! Why would any of the big 3 or 4 for that matter support the series when in reality none of their cars are out there?

[Mindwarp]

Originally Posted by Loki309

This may be a first and a last, but everything that Mindwarp said...I totally agree with...I feel sick to my stomach now

See? I'm not so bad

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Loki309

re:Originally Posted by Mindwarp
I agree with pretty much all of it except, as noted by others, the elimination of the CTS. That's good racing, don't mess with it.
-Get the Sprint guys out of Nationwaide, yes.
-Less races in the season? Sure.
-2 more road races? As long as 1 is in the chase, sure.
-Pony cars in Sprint? I'm split on that one (mor elike 60/40 in favor). It would be nice to see some variations in the cars but let's see what the CoT can deliver first. It's new and still being tinkered with. If 2009 still shows the same growing pains then by all means, consider a change.
RE:
Originally Posted by Loki309
This may be a first and a last, but everything that Mindwarp said...I totally agree with...I feel sick to my stomach now

Both of you completely glossed over Detroit's biggest complaint as stated in the first sentence of item #1: 1. Brand Recognition. It's no secret that there are factions within these Detroit manufacturers who are none too pleased with NASCAR's "CoT" and the fact that literally all brand distinctiveness has been eliminated with the "spec" bodywork required in Sprint Cup.

The new race car gives the finger to the basic foundation of NASCAR, STOCK (even stock-appearing) CARS! Brand identification relating to sales is the reason the factories are even involved in the sport. Since the car is NA__AR-designed and so specialized, there is virtually nothing the factories gain in product transference to the production line cars.

The new car was the final nail in the coffin which changed NASCAR to NA__AR.

Since NA__AR required all the teams to use this whore of a race car I feel it owes the owners something. I would be happy to see the new car go away completely after this season. Then have NASCAR partially subsidize the cost of replacing two new cars with real race care. If a team wants more than two, then the owner and his sponsors foots the bill themselves.

Look closely at DOF's two tag lines. Truer words were never spoken.

[DodgeFB]

If The Detroit Three can't get the attention of NASCAR who can?

I am fine with everything, except messing with the trucks. I am totally against dropping the trucks.

[Robertdjr]

Originally Posted by DodgeFB

If The Detroit Three can't get the attention of NASCAR who can?

It's kinda hard to get these guys attention, for obvious reasons.

[Loki309]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Both of you completely glossed over Detroit's biggest complaint as stated in the first sentence of item #1: 1. Brand Recognition. It's no secret that there are factions within these Detroit manufacturers who are none too pleased with NASCAR's "CoT" and the fact that literally all brand distinctiveness has been eliminated with the "spec" bodywork required in Sprint Cup.

The new race car gives the finger to the basic foundation of NASCAR, STOCK (even stock-appearing) CARS! Brand identification relating to sales is the reason the factories are even involved in the sport. Since the car is NA__AR-designed and so specialized, there is virtually nothing the factories gain in product transference to the production line cars.

The new car was the final nail in the coffin which changed NASCAR to NA__AR.

Since NA__AR required all the teams to use this whore of a race car I feel it owes the owners something. I would be happy to see the new car go away completely after this season. Then have NASCAR partially subsidize the cost of replacing two new cars with real race care. If a team wants more than two, then the owner and his sponsors foots the bill themselves.

Look closely at DOF's two tag lines. Truer words were never spoken.

I don't watch Nascar for brand recognition. I don't care if its a ford, chevy, dodge, toyota, or a horse that wins the race. I just want to see a good race. Same with other sports, I don't watch hockey to see what skates they are wearing, or baseball to see what bat they are swinging, or football to see what ball they are throwing. I watch them for action, to see stuff that I can't do anymore.

Honestly if the COT was a big thing for the big 3, then maybe they should have said something when Nascar started racing the car in the 07 series. While I like the COT, and do think there needs to be changes to the COT, I don't care if it looks distinctive to its automotive club that its said to hail from.

If they get it changed, and it looks like a brand specific car, I still really wont care. I just want better racing, and some people to lighten up about alterations that could be made to the car. And I want the CTS to stay and no more cup raiders in NNS or CTS.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Loki309

I don't watch Nascar for brand recognition. I don't care if its a ford, chevy, dodge, toyota, or a horse that wins the race. I just want to see a good race. Same with other sports, I don't watch hockey to see what skates they are wearing, or baseball to see what bat they are swinging, or football to see what ball they are throwing. I watch them for action, to see stuff that I can't do anymore.

Honestly if the COT was a big thing for the big 3, then maybe they should have said something when Nascar started racing the car in the 07 series. While I like the COT, and do think there needs to be changes to the COT, I don't care if it looks distinctive to its automotive club that its said to hail from.

If they get it changed, and it looks like a brand specific car, I still really wont care. I just want better racing, and some people to lighten up about alterations that could be made to the car. And I want the CTS to stay and no more cup raiders in NNS or CTS.

I agree. Like you I don't care about the brand either. I'm watching to see a race, not a chevy or anything else. I also want the CTS to stay like it is and I have always wanted the cup drivers out of the busch series.

[lugnut]

Something leads me to think that the big 3 or maybe all 4 and NASCAR don't give a crap about what you people or I say.

[DodgeFB]

It's all about the money.

Or I could be wrong.