[BiscuitMan]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Penny, LSC and everyone else who brought up the post-race traffic excuse... may I repost the last sentence of Smith's article? It goes:
"If ticket holders want to leave because their favorite driver isn’t winning or their least favorite driver is, then I don’t consider these people worthy of being called NASCAR fans."

Notice NOWHERE does he blame anyone who doesn't like to spend hours in traffic, or just get bored with the competition. I admit to having left a track under those considerations myself. He specifies the driver fans who leave solely because "their driver" is off the pace or the driver they "hate" is winning."

I will continue to agree with him.

I don't agree with Mike Smith. He's a news reporter in Las Vegas and was not even at the Dover race. He only quoted Mike Humbree of scenedaily.com that fans were leaving before the end of the race.

Do you think Mike Smith attends races at the Las Vegas Speedway? Surely, there will be some fans leaving early. I would expect Mike Smith to be standing at the exit letting everyone going through the gate know that they are not worthy of being called NASCAR fans.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by BiscuitMan

I don't agree with Mike Smith. He's a news reporter in Las Vegas and was not even at the Dover race. He only quoted Mike Humbree of scenedaily.com that fans were leaving before the end of the race.

Do you think Mike Smith attends races at the Las Vegas Speedway? Surely, there will be some fans leaving early. I would expect Mike Smith to be standing at the exit letting everyone going through the gate know that they are not worthy of being called NASCAR fans.

I think he/we are reading too much into this. Think about it ... how many times do we see "fans" leaving a baseball game, football game, etc., before the end?

[wingkey1]

Lessee ---- where we at on this?

We might ask things like - do ya understand and enjoy motorsports, or is Sprint Cup, Nationwide, and Craftsman truck on TV the preponderence of ones current "fandom?"

When ya last raised that panard bar, were the results as expected? Would ya do the same, all else being equal, if the temperature was 10 degrees cooler?

When your driver (the one that was depending on you to turn the wrenches if he/she had to come in one more time before the event was over) was clearly not going to win but was still running, --- did ya leave?

When your short pit strategy still had "win" promise in light of the current situation, even though your driver was presently 1 lap down and running 15th, ---- were ya bored?

*******************************************

No kiddin', many left before event conclusion? Unbelieveable. Must be solely a motorsports at the Sprint Cup level thing. Have NEVER witnessed anything approaching this to any degree at any other sporting event, venue, etc., whatever. Must be indicative of some sort of failing at only motorsports at the Sprint Cup level. What else could it possibly be. I'm hooked. I'm following this LV Sun Dude to the ends of the earth. He are my eyes and forms my every thought, my understanding. Boogity, boogity.

*******************************************

But what do we know?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Lessee ---- where we at on this?

We might ask things like - do ya understand and enjoy motorsports, or is Sprint Cup, Nationwide, and Craftsman truck on TV the preponderence of ones current "fandom?"

I'm going to continue to agree with Smith on this one.

My contention is that the people he references are NOT race fans, they're driver fans. Stereotyping a bit here, and undoubtedly being blatantly unfair in doing do, but... I would guess the fans he points out are fans who have come to follow their driver in NA__AR (notice, I didn't say follow the racing) within the past few years, since the TV contracts and Dale's much publicized death.
I would guess most have never been to their local track. If asked most would say, "I don't go because I don't know any of the drivers."
I would also venture to guess that most have never owned a hot rod of any kind, and have probably never done much work on their car beyond washing it and buying a Little Trees deodorizer.
They hear people talk about the "Old NASCAR" but it doesn't register because they have no frame of reference. They've spend their previous sports allegiance to stick&ball.
They either have a lot of disposable income, or are frivolous with their credit, to "waste" it by leaving early just because "their driver" was floundering.

Or, at least, that's the way I picture them.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I'm going to continue to agree with Smith on this one.

My contention is that the people he references are NOT race fans, they're driver fans. Stereotyping a bit here, and undoubtedly being blatantly unfair in doing do, but... I would guess the fans he points out are fans who have come to follow their driver in NA__AR (notice, I didn't say follow the racing) within the past few years, since the TV contracts and Dale's much publicized death.
I would guess most have never been to their local track. If asked most would say, "I don't go because I don't know any of the drivers."
I would also venture to guess that most have never owned a hot rod of any kind, and have probably never done much work on their car beyond washing it and buying a Little Trees deodorizer.
They hear people talk about the "Old NASCAR" but it doesn't register because they have no frame of reference. They've spend their previous sports allegiance to stick&ball.
They either have a lot of disposable income, or are frivolous with their credit, to "waste" it by leaving early just because "their driver" was floundering.

Or, at least, that's the way I picture them.

The 'ol - "I can see both the toilet and the fridge no greater than the effective distance of my remote" crowd as they "participate" in the NASCAR Sprint Cup experience. Yeah.

Those claiminng to have gained full appreciation of all that is the top levels of motorsports by watching something in the area of 5% of what the sport is. For any who may wonder, the actual race itself is something in the general area of 5% of all that is prep and execution of a successful (or unsuccessful for that matter) endeavor. Those at this level have a 95% probability of finding an event boring, in need of change, encouraging moving to another venue, blameing the governing body, damning the successful, etc.

But the unknowing are loud and persistent, and their day is coming.

[SpaceCadet]

Tons of people left Dover very early. I was on turn 4, upper tier, not packed in at all because there were quite a few empty seats. People began leaving with 100 laps left. Many of those that left that early were sporting driver apparel - Jr., Stewart, Harvick, Hamlin, and Sadler, all drivers taken out in the lap 19 wreck. The family of 5 next to me were Harvick fans. I thought they were going to have a fit and fall in it when he wrecked. They even said goodbye to us and said there was no sense staying because Harvick was just making laps in a demolished car. Let's see, what's $95 times 5 seats? Um, yeah, a lot of money. We stayed for the burnouts, the interviews, took a nap and grabbed a bite to eat while the masses descended the bezillion flights of stairs to the ground. At $95 a pop, I'm gonna suck every minute I can out of the experience. And even though Kyle Busch can be a jerk, his burnouts are second to none, for sure. It was loads of fun to watch, whether you like him or not.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I would guess most have never been to their local track. If asked most would say, "I don't go because I don't know any of the drivers."

Well then, they need to take a walk into the pits after the race and spend a few minutes getting to know these drivers. I have never run across one driver at any of the tracks around here who didn't appreciate the fans taking the time to come into the pits and talk with them. It is what racing is all about. It's about the driver's coming into the stands with their helmets to collect money for a modified driver who was just blinded in an accident and has no medical insurance. It's about the fan who gives up that last Hoffman's hotdog and Bud to scrape together as much as he can to put in those helmets for that driver. It's about the fans who get together and take up a collection or offer their time and mechanical knowledge/help for the small time owner who has put every spare cent and every spare minute into his car, the car that has just been destroyed and will take months and thousands of dollars to repair. It's about the driver's lifting a wide eyed child into the driver's seat and letting them take a few imaginary laps. It's about the fans who show up at their local track before opening day to volunteer to paint garbage cans and retaining walls and shovel the winter's accumulated gravel from in front of the entrances.

As much as I enjoy NASCAR, it doesn't compare to "real" racing. Leaving a NASCAR race early is a far lesser "crime" than never having planted your butt in the stands at the local track.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Tons of people left Dover very early. I was on turn 4, upper tier, not packed in at all because there were quite a few empty seats. People began leaving with 100 laps left. Many of those that left that early were sporting driver apparel - Jr., Stewart, Harvick, Hamlin, and Sadler, all drivers taken out in the lap 19 wreck. The family of 5 next to me were Harvick fans. I thought they were going to have a fit and fall in it when he wrecked. They even said goodbye to us and said there was no sense staying because Harvick was just making laps in a demolished car. Let's see, what's $95 times 5 seats? Um, yeah, a lot of money. We stayed for the burnouts, the interviews, took a nap and grabbed a bite to eat while the masses descended the bezillion flights of stairs to the ground. At $95 a pop, I'm gonna suck every minute I can out of the experience. And even though Kyle Busch can be a jerk, his burnouts are second to none, for sure. It was loads of fun to watch, whether you like him or not.

So, we have personal exposure to what the Sun's writer was referencing?

This sadly reminds me an argument I had with a "fan" about 3-4 years ago. We were debating the Chosen 35 Rule and the silly provisional system. His argument against it (and I am not making this up!) was, "I go to several races a year and my favourite driver is ****** ((name of driver is unimportant). If they stop the Top 35 then he might not qualify, and the money I have spent to go to the race, the tickets, and everything... Well, it's just wasted!"

There are some rationale which just defies response.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Well then, they need to take a walk into the pits after the race and spend a few minutes getting to know these drivers. I have never run across one driver at any of the tracks around here who didn't appreciate the fans taking the time to come into the pits and talk with them. It is what racing is all about. It's about the driver's coming into the stands with their helmets to collect money for a modified driver who was just blinded in an accident and has no medical insurance. It's about the fan who gives up that last Hoffman's hotdog and Bud to scrape together as much as he can to put in those helmets for that driver. It's about the fans who get together and take up a collection or offer their time and mechanical knowledge/help for the small time owner who has put every spare cent and every spare minute into his car, the car that has just been destroyed and will take months and thousands of dollars to repair. It's about the driver's lifting a wide eyed child into the driver's seat and letting them take a few imaginary laps. It's about the fans who show up at their local track before opening day to volunteer to paint garbage cans and retaining walls and shovel the winter's accumulated gravel from in front of the entrances.

As much as I enjoy NASCAR, it doesn't compare to "real" racing. Leaving a NASCAR race early is a far lesser "crime" than never having planted your butt in the stands at the local track.

AMEN!! to the above on a number of different levels.

The sad part is that, to one degree or another, the Saturday night races NA__AR has become so enamored with, have made it harder and harder for some local tracks to stay open. In most areas, Saturday night is the optimum night for local racing.

I know whenever I have the choice between a Sat. Cup race and a race at Mobile Speedway, So. Mississippi Speedway in Pass Christian, or Five Flag in P'cola, I'm at the local track where the real racing happens.