What is the big deal? It amazes me that people let the media make them feel like this is much worse than it is.

Let's do some math. The theory and this article is that this year gas prices are keeping people from traveling to races.

Gas has increased from lets say $2.00 per gallon (when people were flocking to the events) up to $4.50 per gallon (the absolute highest gas has ever been, although at the time i'm writing this, gas is $3.62 at my local Speedway). That's a difference of $2.50 per gallon.

An average RV gets 12-19 miles per gallon. Let's say 12 mpg so every estimate I'm making is making it look the absolute most expensive as possible. If the average trip is 250 miles as the article above indicates. That is 500 miles roundtrip 500/12 = 41 gallons. 41 gallons @ $2.50 increase is a whopping $100.

My assumptions are that not many people are traveling in an RV by their self. Let's just say that 2 families split up the additional cost. That's $50 per family. And, if 10 people are in the Rv, that is $10 per person.

$10 per person is what people are freaking out over on a weekend trip to a Nascar race. Don't get me wrong, it's not fun spending $80 to fill up a personal tank of gas, but it. Let's just not let the media or social circles make this gas increase seem worse than it really is.

[Bassdogs]

Most of the impact of higher gas prices is psychological vs economic. Now before you guys accuse me of being insensitive to working class budgets, let me explain. Take that motor home someone mentioned that a fan would drive 500 miles round trip to a race. Throw in an extra 100 miles for beer runs or trips to the deli. Assuming 6 miles [I get 8-10] and they will buy 100 gallons for the weekend for a total expense of say $400. What everyone needs to keep in mind is that this might be $100 more than the last couple of years, far from a show stopper. Race tickets [less than $100 each] are cheap when compared to a trip to DisneyWorld or a Cruise. Not the same thing you say? Most race fans who actually go to races, attend only 1 per year. They represents a special "vacation" outing that we plan for as we pull out of the parking lot at the end of the last race. Spread the cost over 4, 6, or more fans, and you're looking at maybe $300 for the weekend and thats throwing in a hat and t shirt.

Anyway my point is that this is 2008 and everything is expensive. A cup race [IMHO] still represents a pretty good value when compared to a couple of rounds of golf or a trip to the amusement park. Most don't ever attend a cup race, but most wouldn't attend if gas was $2.50 and tickets were $60.

[LSC9901]

I'l agree that the amount of increase may in fact be somewhat minimal but ...... keep in mind that along with that 500 mile journey most Americans on average drive about 15,000 miles per year in cars that probably average 21 MPG. That is about 715 gallons of gas. Now at $2.00 per gallon it WAS $1430.00 per year. Now at $3.68 (current national average) it is $2631.20. Does that extra $100.00 seem so insignificant now ???

[loco4pablo]

NASCAR is no different then any other business. There are not many business's that are not hurting right now. Sure the price of gas has an effect on things but the big problem is just the economy in general. People aren't making money so they ain't spending it. Believe me if the American people were making $$ right now the price of gas wouldn't be a huge issue, they would still go to the races.
I don't think NASCAR is overly concerned about the empty seats, they expect that in this economy......BUT, I'm sure what has them most concerned is...Why are the TV ratings down so much?
If people are spending less money on everything AND staying home more. How come they aren't watching NASCAR at home? That is what has put a bead of sweat on Brian and Heltons forehead!

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I'l agree that the amount of increase may in fact be somewhat minimal but ...... keep in mind that along with that 500 mile journey most Americans on average drive about 15,000 miles per year in cars that probably average 21 MPG. That is about 715 gallons of gas. Now at $2.00 per gallon it WAS $1430.00 per year. Now at $3.68 (current national average) it is $2631.20. Does that extra $100.00 seem so insignificant now ???

If you argue that the higher cost of gas is having a significant impact on the "vacation" plans of fans, I agree. What I was pointing out was that a long weekend to a Nascar event represents a pretty good value when compared to several other popular vacation options and even typical weekend activities like golf or a night out to a nice restaurant and a movie. Higher gas and heating costs are keeping people home and causing them to cut back on the vacations that they may have otherwise taken. Just don't single out Nascar as I honestly believe [if you're a fan] a lot of bang for your $$.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by loco4pablo

NASCAR is no different then any other business. There are not many business's that are not hurting right now. Sure the price of gas has an effect on things but the big problem is just the economy in general. People aren't making money so they ain't spending it. Believe me if the American people were making $$ right now the price of gas wouldn't be a huge issue, they would still go to the races.

The fact that people are staying home and not spending money going to sporting event or buying unnecessary "stuff" isn't a bad thing.

As far as "bad economy," that's a media perpetrated myth. Our economy has slowed a bit but we have yet to see a quarter with negative GDP (Gross Domestic Product).

Plus, people not going to races isn't necessarily a bad thing. Did you know that while the USA is second compared to all industrialized nations in household median income (See table below: D. Gilbert, American Class Structure), we are something like 17th in savings, again compared to other countries (see following link). This is why we have so many in this country with a household median income of under $15K. They didn't save when they could, but spent their money on "things" (like attending NA__AR races?) and now depend on Social Insecurity to exist.

So, possibly the empty seats at the tracks are a positive?

Country Median household income
Switzerland $55,000
United States $48,000
Canada $44,000
New Zealand $41,000
United Kingdom $39,000
Australia $38,000
Israel $37,000
Ireland $35,000
Scotland $34,000

America's household savings compared to other countries | Who are Americans?

Originally Posted by loco4pablo

I don't think NASCAR is overly concerned about the empty seats, they expect that in this economy......BUT, I'm sure what has them most concerned is...Why are the TV ratings down so much?
If people are spending less money on everything AND staying home more. How come they aren't watching NASCAR at home? That is what has put a bead of sweat on Brian and Heltons forehead!

You make such a great point I wish that I had said it. I, personally think it's the youthful fan that NA__AR went after like a pit bull on a toy poodle. They got the new fan to watch a few races and get a favourite driver. But now this "fan" has been there, done that, and watch "his/her driver go round and round and they're getting bored and are drifting off to the next "In sport." My bet is a lot of the NA__AR tee shirts have been replaced with Michael Phelps stuff within the past couple weeks.

That, and the fact that so many of the old fans, like myself, are just tired of this "racing lite" that we're turning off, SHOULD give Brian and Mike some anxious moments. I hope that it does. Couldn't happen to a more deserving pair.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

If you argue that the higher cost of gas is having a significant impact on the "vacation" plans of fans, I agree. What I was pointing out was that a long weekend to a Nascar event represents a pretty good value when compared to several other popular vacation options and even typical weekend activities like golf or a night out to a nice restaurant and a movie. Higher gas and heating costs are keeping people home and causing them to cut back on the vacations that they may have otherwise taken. Just don't single out Nascar as I honestly believe [if you're a fan] a lot of bang for your $$.

By no means am I or probably anyone singling out NASCAR as the culprit. This just happens to be a NASCAR Forum and the discussion came up.

Another point to consider is that inflation is also taking its toll on what we do with our (devalued) dollars.

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I'l agree that the amount of increase may in fact be somewhat minimal but ...... keep in mind that along with that 500 mile journey most Americans on average drive about 15,000 miles per year in cars that probably average 21 MPG. That is about 715 gallons of gas. Now at $2.00 per gallon it WAS $1430.00 per year. Now at $3.68 (current national average) it is $2631.20. Does that extra $100.00 seem so insignificant now ???

So at $1,430 per year, no one is complaining, and people just fill up the tank without thinking twice about price. Now at $2,631 per year we are freaking out. That's a difference of $1,201 over a 365 day calendar year. That's $3.29 per day, or $100 per month.

I'm not arguing that is a lot of money because it is...and of course it's more to some people than it is others. I grew up with a single mom and 2 sisters, and because of that have learned that no dollar earned should be taken for granted. I think too few people have that mindset, and because they don't, they have no regard for $, and just assume that everything will work its way out. Well, it doesn't always, so be prepared (ie. savings accounts). Here are other things some friends of mine who are whining about the prices ARE spending their money on without reservation.

1. Cigarettes. Oddly enough, the additional cost of fuel comes out to about exactly the price of 1 package of cigarettes per day. My own mom who struggled to make car payments, mortgage, etc did not have a problem spending $3/pack on 2 packs per day. That's $2,190 in a year...that figure is awfully close to the ENTIRE YEARLY amount of gas spent AT THE HIGHEST PRICES in history.

2. Credit card. $3.29 in interest per day would be what you would pay if your credit card balance was $6672.22 @ 18%. If you have a credit card bill of that much, you are simply overspending, and need to cut it out of your life and begin a budget. I don't have sympathy for someone who moans about their credit card bill. While they were driving their new car, or playing with their new X-Box, and I was saving my $, they had no sympathy for me. They enjoyed the $ before they earned it.

3. 1 family restaurant outing (or 2-3 outings for a couple). Simply cook a meal at home. It's not hard to spend $100 on a family dinner at Outback. Make a pot of spaghetti for $5, and there is your monthly gas savings.

4. Just last weekend, I spent a half hour listening to a friend gripe about gas prices. Not 2 minutes later, he bought a round of shots and a beer for his friends. His tab for just that round was $68. Plus tip, and that's close to his entire monthly premium he is griping about at the pumps. Come on, it's hard for me to believe the gas hike is hurting you that bad.

5. And, let's not forget it is not a "right" to own or drive a car. It is a luxury. It amazes me that what are considered "lower class" still have a roof over their head, tv's, cars (not the nicest ones, but they're still rolling), plenty of food, and most of their kids still have some toys. Albeit, they may not have the "newest" Wii or Xbox, but does your kid 'need' the newest toys that the media tells you are popular?

Not to go back to my personal childhood, but being at the very bottom of the financial classes, and no government assistance (nor should there be), I feel I almost had a better understanding for all things financial; not overspending on a $75 polo shirt, or waiting a month when the "newest" toys came out before I got mine when the price dropped. And, in this case, I've never taken for granted how CHEAP gas has been up until the recent hikes. I believe people were so used to getting it at such a good price, they never stopped to thank the people that went out and explored, invested, and got the oil out of the ground for us.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Not to go back to my personal childhood, but being at the very bottom of the financial classes, and no government assistance (nor should there be), I feel I almost had a better understanding for all things financial; not overspending on a $75 polo shirt, or waiting a month when the "newest" toys came out before I got mine when the price dropped. And, in this case, I've never taken for granted how CHEAP gas has been up until the recent hikes. I believe people were so used to getting it at such a good price, they never stopped to thank the people that went out and explored, invested, and got the oil out of the ground for us.

I don't know who you are but I think we probably have a number of values in common.

People complain about the "massive" profits the oil companies are making. The first thing that grabs me is the profit the media hacks spin out if gross profit. When you ("you" referring to anyone who has read this far without getting bored and going to another thread to read about "their" driver) get to net profit you might find the US Government is making more net profit on each gallon of gasoline sold than the oil companies are.

The second thing that strikes me is that for many years the oil companies made marginal net profits because of the high cost of refining and exploration, having to search for crude NOT where they knew where it was and where it could be easily obtained but rather punch holes in the ground where the tree huggers and the government told them to look. No one complained about the low profits then (while they were burning all the $1-$2 gas they could fill their tanks with). This is what forced many companies to merge.

But now that the oil companies, and their stockholders are making some real profit they are suddenly labeled by the parrot media as"evil." Ain't wealth-envy great?

[Bassdogs]

Maybe if we all pull together, we can get Obamma to treat us like an oppressed group and he'll support a government program to help us attend races. After all, not everyone has "boots" but we all were born with the right to own, drive, or at least watch really fast cars. I nominate Bob to lead the campaign. Who knows with this being an election year, getting the Nascar vote could be the difference in getting elected.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Maybe if we all pull together, we can get Obamma to treat us like an oppressed group and he'll support a government program to help us attend races. After all, not everyone has "boots" but we all were born with the right to own, drive, or at least watch really fast cars. I nominate Bob to lead the campaign. Who knows with this being an election year, getting the Nascar vote could be the difference in getting elected.

Hmmm...??? Well,... If health care is considered (mostly by bed-wetting, bleeding heart liberals) a "right," why would it be a stretch for those of us who are "addicted" to watching automobile racing to also have a "right" (which, like a health care right, would be guaranteed by Federal law) to attend whatever type of racing we are "addicted" to? Makes as much sense as a "right" to health care, doesn't it?

As for The Bobster "leading the campaign..." Nope.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

Nascar is affected by the lack of fans showing up because of the gas increase, not everyone lives by a track..

youre kidding right ? ....... i dont really think NASCAR much cares if anyone shows up at the track or not

let's check the math

a $50 ticket to a race ... 100,000 seats per track .... 36 races .... $180 million for the season ..... now of course none of the tracks are ever completely empty .... not even close .... so lets say they average 20% empty (which i think is still high) .... 20% of $180 million is $36 million .... a decent amount of money, but i still dont think they really care

now let me explain why i dont think they care

the latest NASCAR TV deal ...... $4.8 billion for 8 years ..... this calculates to $600 million per year .... do you still think NASCAR cares if a few people cant afford to make it to the track ?

as for lowering ticket prices ..... lets say they lower the prices $10 per ticket ($40 instead of $50 ) ...... my simple math shows they would lose the same amount of money even if they sold 100,000 tickets to every race .... so it does them no good to lower prices

It is a bit of a coincidence that the companies that Nascar fans/consumers are mad at, are the exact same companies that go find this product called "oil" that happens to make these race cars go.

Sure, let's continue to tax oil companies to death where they are forced to go out of business. The second they are out of business, the entire Nascar industry will hault. Oh wait, I think they do have battery powered cars that go 40 mph now!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by simple simon

youre kidding right ? ....... i dont really think NASCAR much cares if anyone shows up at the track or not

let's check the math

a $50 ticket to a race ... 100,000 seats per track .... 36 races .... $180 million for the season ..... now of course none of the tracks are ever completely empty .... not even close .... so lets say they average 20% empty (which i think is still high) .... 20% of $180 million is $36 million .... a decent amount of money, but i still dont think they really care

now let me explain why i dont think they care

the latest NASCAR TV deal ...... $4.8 billion for 8 years ..... this calculates to $600 million per year .... do you still think NASCAR cares if a few people cant afford to make it to the track ?

as for lowering ticket prices ..... lets say they lower the prices $10 per ticket ($40 instead of $50 ) ...... my simple math shows they would lose the same amount of money even if they sold 100,000 tickets to every race .... so it does them no good to lower prices

Oh so true. BUT, if the TV ratings start a downward spiral and the networks being to think, "Gee whiz? Is this really worh $600 million a year?" THAT will get their attention.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Oh so true. BUT, if the TV ratings start a downward spiral and the networks being to think, "Gee whiz? Is this really worh $600 million a year?" THAT will get their attention.

We all know (or should) that TV will pay NASCAR a percentage of what they can get for commercials during a race broadcast. As soon as the "viewership" goes down, companies who buy commercial time will be less likely to pay the going rate and will hold out for a "better deal", which means TV will get less money for commercial airtime, which means NASCAR will get less money for allowing a race to be televised. If that keeps up for very long we'll only be able to see NASCAR race snippets on the 10 o'clock news...unless we go to the track and buy a ticket

then we get into the cost of gas problem which started this whole line of thought...