[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Stewart Fan

This is something I wonder. What is the difference between Mike Helton and Brian France? I know that Brian France is the top dog but is Mike Helton the #2 man in charge?

Brian is the company CEO. The board of Directors are Jim France (his uncle), Lesa Kennedy (his sister) and Betty Jane France (mother).

He was a partner in International Speedway Corp. (ISC) but over the past 24 months the France family have bought out all of his voting shares.

Mike Helton is President of NASCAR and is the highest ranking non-France Family member serving in NASCAR/ISC Administration.

Or, this is the way I have it flow charted, anyway.

[LSC9901]

Brian signs Mike's pay check.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Brian signs Mike's pay check.

You know me, Steve. Why say something in five words when you can make the same statement in fifty?

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Brian signs Mike's pay check.

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

You know me, Steve. Why say something in five words when you can make the same statement in fifty?

.

[LSC9901]

On to a subject that always amazes me. "Fuel Mileage Races". I understand the concept and meaning ... to a degree but to me as soon as the first caution flag flies why do they continue to call it a fuel mileage race ??? How, when and why did the term come into effect ? Is this just another media born hook that everyone gets caught up in ? It seems to me that all races are fuel mileage races until the green flag flies. They look at the laps from the last lap to the first, determine what their mileage is, figure out how many stops are required and then re-compute everything as soon as the yellow comes out. Am I missing something here or is the media driven idea what it is all about ???

[boplenty]

It only takes a very, very late caution to change a "fuel mileage race" to a "Shootout". I guess it's just a media play.

[Racer Duck]

I think that when cars start slowing down in order to stretch their fuel a little farther, it becomes a fuel mileage race. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that staying on the track at a significantly slower speed is oftentimes a faster way to the finish than stopping for a "splash-n-go".

That said, as long as NASCAR enforces the minimum race speed rule, it's just another quirk about long distance racing. You see the same type of thing in other racing series where "stamina" is a factor, so it's not really a big deal .. at least not to me 'cause it does add a "nail-bite" factor to the race.

It's the phoney cautions that irritate me .. those thrown to "bunch up the field" or to "insure driver-X doesn't go a lap down"....GRRRRR! Since when does a plastic water bottle, thrown on the track by one of the competitors, constitute a safety issue? And, if it does, why isn't the offending driver not penalized??? I think any normal person with an IQ over 5 can figure out that one...

Personally I'd rather see a race with a distance that requires 1-3 refueling stops max. Then no matter how many cautions actually happen, we, the fans, can be pretty much assured of a "fight to the finish" instead of a "coast to the finish". And, yes, I'd rather see a race where the winner who has a 2 lap lead on 2nd place slow down and take a "pre-victory" lap, than some of the manufactured things they call "races" that are fed to us today! At least then I would know the winner actually deserved the win because of his/her race speed rather than some gimmick contrived by the track or sanctioning body's marketing people.

Ultimately, what is commonly labeled as a "fuel mileage race" is a marketing tool to build excitement in what some consider an otherwise "boring" event that is long distance racing.

And I label any race in which the race vehicles cannot reach the finish with only onboard fuel thus requiring a "refueling event", a "long distance race" .. it really doesn't have anything to do with miles or kilometers traveled, but rather the stops along the way.

[LSC9901]

After I posted that question a thought came to mind. What would the effect be if NASCAR said you must refuel "X" many times for this race. (Doesn't really matter which race ... all of them.) You could stop for fuel more but this plays the pit crew into the "Team Effort" a little bit more and eliminates the "fuel strategy" way of thinking.

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons as to why they shouldn't do it but I'm just curios what others think.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

After I posted that question a thought came to mind. What would the effect be if NASCAR said you must refuel "X" many times for this race. (Doesn't really matter which race ... all of them.) You could stop for fuel more but this plays the pit crew into the "Team Effort" a little bit more and eliminates the "fuel strategy" way of thinking.

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons as to why they shouldn't do it but I'm just curios what others think.

I would look at it as just another "gimmick" to artificially add some element of whatever to a race.

But then, I admit I'm biased because I just have never gotten into this "Team sport" model for motor racing. I look at it as a driver/vehicle individual sport, which a team there to assist, kind of like a caddy in golf. It's just another way some have found to relate motor racing to a stick&ball context.

I'm solidly in Duck's corner on feeling about long distance racing. They were instituted in NASCAR because, at the time, the cars were basically stock (Gawd! STOCK CAR RACING? What a concept!) and a car which completed the distance earned as much od a tribute as did the driver. Which these hand-crafted engines and specially built drive trains they run today, what is so special about a car finishing 500 miles? Example: Talladega had four cars leave early with mechanical problems -one of those was the #66, an unabashed s&P'er/ Yesterday they also had four mechanical failures - three of those were also #'s 36,87 and 70 , all S&P'ers.
Compare those stats with the first really long distance race, the Southern 500at Darlington in 1950. Seventy-five starters; forty-three DNF'd due to mechanical failure of one type or another. Only four were out due to crashes, the records say.
Four hundred and five hundred mile races today are unnecessary, IMNSVHO. They end up too often being a little exciting at the beginning and the end with long periods of boredom sandwiched in between.

But, that's just my personal opinion.

[Stewart Fan]

Mark Martin used to be listed as the owner of the #17 car when he was with Roush. Now was that just one of those things on paper or did he actually have any real ownership in the car?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Stewart Fan

Mark Martin used to be listed as the owner of the #17 car when he was with Roush. Now was that just one of those things on paper or did he actually have any real ownership in the car?

Would a "real owner," (a term which NA__Ar has allowed to become as meaningless as the word "Normal") GIVE his team back to its original owner when he left the employ of that original owner?

Did Papa Joe Hendrick ever have any actual say so in the running of HMS' #25 team?

Did Jack Roush's wife ever do any managerial duties with whichever Roush team she was listed as owner of?

Ditto Jeffie-Pooh and the #48.

This was all a word game Bill France Jr. allowed to happen, and later encouraged, originally with Rick Hendrick, back in 1987. It was done to bypass Bill Sr.'s long standing rule of no team owner could have more than two full-time Cup teams. IMNSVHO, it was one of the things which brought NA__AR to the sorry state of credibility which it is in currently with many of its ardent followers.

[nascaraddict]

I know that this has already been handled on here... But when was the dreaded pit road speed limit put in? I can't remember.

I know that it was needed for safety. But it can cause a bunch of problems sometimes.

[nascar_freak]

Originally Posted by nascaraddict

I know that this has already been handled on here... But when was the dreaded pit road speed limit put in? I can't remember.

I know that it was needed for safety. But it can cause a bunch of problems sometimes.

NASCAR instituted speed limits on pit road in 1991 I believe after a couple of pit crew members were killed during races. That rule was put in place quite a few years ago and is for the safety of the pit crews. It is currently monitored electronically to take out any subjective judgment and drivers are given a 5 mph cushion. NASCAR is not the only series with a pit road speed limit. All other major forms of racing including F1, IRL, and ALMS have a pit road speed limit. What is unique in NASCAR is the driver has to control the speed himself while the other series use a button on the steering wheel that activates a rev limiter.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by nascar_freak

NASCAR instituted speed limits on pit road in 1991 I believe after a couple of pit crew members were killed during races. That rule was put in place quite a few years ago and is for the safety of the pit crews. It is currently monitored electronically to take out any subjective judgment and drivers are given a 5 mph cushion. NASCAR is not the only series with a pit road speed limit. All other major forms of racing including F1, IRL, and ALMS have a pit road speed limit. What is unique in NASCAR is the driver has to control the speed himself while the other series use a button on the steering wheel that activates a rev limiter.

problem with rev limiters is it requires the right gear selection and rear end gears to maintain the right speed .. electronically selected transmission gears is doable, but unless the rear end gears are spec'd, it (rev limiters) will never be all that accurate .. better is wheel speed monitoring. In NASCAR, none of the above is electronically controllable. And the 5mph cushion is a joke .. it just raises the actual speed limit .. the number NASCAR publicizes is bogus, fluff, misleading, ......

some people don't know that ALMS is a NASCAR sibling .. the baby of Jim France .. so similarities are inevitable.

premier racing series which employ pit stops as part of their normal competition should all have automatically controlled pit speeds. let the driver choose to go slower, but electronically limit their max speed .. then there's no speeding problems to police .. it's not that the technology doesn't exist .. just that it eats into their (the track, sanctioning body & team's) profit.

[nascaraddict]

This one is not so much a question.... But a would ya hook a buddy up with a picture of something for me?

We have been seeing the Digger Cam... Love it or hate it for several years now. I for one love that camera angle. But as much as I've searched google, I've never seen a picture of what the camera itself looks like. And I'm a big enough geek to wonder whatzup!!!!


I've searched and searched; but nada.