[nascaraddict]

That's about what I thought. But ya'll REALLY explained it well.

Thanks!

[Bryan Blanton]

Hi i have a question 1 of my friends that i e-mail sais nascar has too many rules and he sais this is the term he uses he sais nascar dummies down the cars too much - what he means by that is they slow them down way too much and he sais it has hurt the quality of the racing i was just curious how some of the people who have been nascar or racefans for a longtime feel about this?

[gordon_fan_4_life]

Originally Posted by Bryan Blanton

Hi i have a question 1 of my friends that i e-mail sais nascar has too many rules and he sais this is the term he uses he sais nascar dummies down the cars too much - what he means by that is they slow them down way too much and he sais it has hurt the quality of the racing i was just curious how some of the people who have been nascar or racefans for a longtime feel about this?

ummmmm? I have no idea!

[Stewart Fan]

Originally Posted by Bryan Blanton

Hi i have a question 1 of my friends that i e-mail sais nascar has too many rules and he sais this is the term he uses he sais nascar dummies down the cars too much - what he means by that is they slow them down way too much and he sais it has hurt the quality of the racing i was just curious how some of the people who have been nascar or racefans for a longtime feel about this?

Well nascar is always cutting down the power of the cars to make the racing safer. For example at Dega cars would be over 210+ MPH which would drastically increase the danger level.

[Dumanehu]

Originally Posted by Bryan Blanton

Hi i have a question 1 of my friends that i e-mail sais nascar has too many rules and he sais this is the term he uses he sais nascar dummies down the cars too much - what he means by that is they slow them down way too much and he sais it has hurt the quality of the racing i was just curious how some of the people who have been nascar or racefans for a longtime feel about this?

If there was no defined box, money and resources would absolutely obliterate the majority of the competition. Teams like Robby Gordon Motorsports would never have existed and the Original Petty Enterprises would have dissolved into nothing years ago.

The competition we have come to love and admire for all these years is a direct reflection on the sanctioning bodies decision to maintain as much of a box as they can. It is up to the individual organizations or larger teams to fill up that box as much as possible.

[Racer Duck]

I appreciate the question, Bryan, but it's off topic for this thread. This thread is about the statistical and technical aspects of NASCAR, not about opinions. That said, if you want an explanation of how NASCAR has "dumbed down" the cars, then that's fair and on topic.

Warning: any post after this one that continues Bryan's opinion discussion in this thread will be removed as off topic.

[Stewart Fan]

What is the fastest qualifying lap ever in the cup series?

[MikeRaceDayTek]

Originally Posted by Stewart Fan

What is the fastest qualifying lap ever in the cup series?

1987 Bill Elliot at Dega at almost 213 MPH. That was before restrictor plates.

If you want fastest since restrictor plates it was Geoff Bodine with a speed of 197 in 1997 at Atlanta.

[Stewart Fan]

Originally Posted by MikeRaceDayTek

1987 Bill Elliot at Dega at almost 213 MPH. That was before restrictor plates.

If you want fastest since restrictor plates it was Geoff Bodine with a speed of 197 in 1997 at Atlanta.

Yeah I knew about Bill but I was wondering other than that. Thanks!

[nascaraddict]

Then came the plates. And then the real racing ended.

[nascaraddict]

I don't know if this one has been tackled yet. And this a little off the wall. I thought of it while watching the Martinsville race.

When you have short track racing, such as Martinsville, and the exaust is coming out in the right side.... Is'nt there a chance that the hot temps and the little bit of fire coming out for a second or two in the corners might do more to melt the bead?

And I wonder if Goodyear takes this exaust in the right side into consideration when making tires for the short tracks.

I know I'm getting WAY too much into the sport, but I am the NASCARADDICT.

[Racer Duck]

nah, addict .. it just means you've moved past the mundane and are now on another (cerebral) level.

to answer your question, tho: it would only be a factor if there were long periods of side-by-side racing and the exhaust was pointed directly at the tire the whole time. There's actually more heat introduced into the tire bead by the brakes than by another car's exhaust. Just think of it like passing your hand over the coals in your grill .. it might singe for a second or two, but not enough to do more than give a momentary tingle...

[nascaraddict]

O.K., O.K., But I figured that the aready high tire pressures at the end of a run caused by tire vs. pavement friction would cause make the bead hot as is.

Added to that the exaust flame on the right side.... The tire bead can melt quicker.

[Racer Duck]

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from.

But remember the exhaust flame is only there for a second or two, then it's gone. And, yes, hot exhaust gasses will continue to be expelled out the pipes, but they aren't as hot as the flame.

Another thing you may not know is that the tires are filled with nitrogen which doesn't have water vapors in it like regular air. Thus the tires are able to not "grow" in pressure nor temperature like if they were filled with regular air. In fact, I'm not sure what the actual mixture of inert gasses is that are being used in NASCAR nowadays. But I do know that IndyCar and Formula 1 use some pretty exotic mixtures whose sole purpose is to control tire temps.

Finally, there's the proximity factor that's yet to be discussed. The exhaust pipe outlets are actually below the tire bead (not by much, but below) so the whole "force" of the heat coming out of the pipes is being directed into the sidewall of the tire more than onto the tire bead/rim area. Since the rubber will not absorb heat as readily as the steel rim, and since the tire and wheel are rotating while being "blasted", there's not actually very much heat being focused on any one place and especially not on the bead, so the effect is less heat actually being applied to a particular place on the bead/rim juncture which is required to get the bead to melt.

Then, unless they are rubbing doors the whole time, there's several inches, and sometimes even feet, between the exhaust outlet and the tire/wheel. And since the most intense heat is within an inch or so of the exhaust outlet, normal dissipation due to expansion of the gasses, and movement into and thru cooler air also takes place.

That's a long winded way of saying that, Yes, it could happen. But the likelihood of it happening is pretty remote .. maybe like half a million to one or something (just a wag on my part .. I don't have the time available - nor the inclination - to do the actual calculations.)

Are we able to put this one to bed now?

[nascaraddict]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from.

But remember the exhaust flame is only there for a second or two, then it's gone. And, yes, hot exhaust gasses will continue to be expelled out the pipes, but they aren't as hot as the flame.

Another thing you may not know is that the tires are filled with nitrogen which doesn't have water vapors in it like regular air. Thus the tires are able to not "grow" in pressure nor temperature like if they were filled with regular air. In fact, I'm not sure what the actual mixture of inert gasses is that are being used in NASCAR nowadays. But I do know that IndyCar and Formula 1 use some pretty exotic mixtures whose sole purpose is to control tire temps.

Finally, there's the proximity factor that's yet to be discussed. The exhaust pipe outlets are actually below the tire bead (not by much, but below) so the whole "force" of the heat coming out of the pipes is being directed into the sidewall of the tire more than onto the tire bead/rim area. Since the rubber will not absorb heat as readily as the steel rim, and since the tire and wheel are rotating while being "blasted", there's not actually very much heat being focused on any one place and especially not on the bead, so the effect is less heat actually being applied to a particular place on the bead/rim juncture which is required to get the bead to melt.

Then, unless they are rubbing doors the whole time, there's several inches, and sometimes even feet, between the exhaust outlet and the tire/wheel. And since the most intense heat is within an inch or so of the exhaust outlet, normal dissipation due to expansion of the gasses, and movement into and thru cooler air also takes place.

That's a long winded way of saying that, Yes, it could happen. But the likelihood of it happening is pretty remote .. maybe like half a million to one or something (just a wag on my part .. I don't have the time available - nor the inclination - to do the actual calculations.)

Are we able to put this one to bed now?

Yep. But I should have figured that NA_CAR used nitrogen in the tires.

I work for Michelin. And when we get to buy tires on the cheap from the company, they use nitrogen to inflate them. There's also a nitogen station on the company property that we can use to inflate our tires if they run low. A little wired company perk.