[kcoruol]

NASCAR has lost it's fan base.

NASCAR is suffering from low ticket sales and declining ratings.

NASCAR races are boring.

I think for a lot of NASCAR fans, NASCAR with out Dale Earnhardt will never be what it once was. With no where to go these fans latched on to DEJ. But now DEJ has left DEI, the #8, and Budweiser.

These fans probably feel lost and disoriented.

What will they do with all their Budweiser #8 merchandise they've invested in?

What is this drink called AMP?

What is AMP?

What happened to Mountain Dew?
Every body knows what Mountain Dew is, what it taste like and where to buy it.

And if going to HMS isn't a slap in the face of every DE and DEJ fan I don't know what is.

Did anybody watch the Daytona 500 this week?

IMHO, NASCAR is an unstoppable Juggernaut in sports, media, merchandising and money.

Some of the biggest names in music performed at the Daytona 500, Thunderbirds fly over, Trisha Yearwood singing the National Anthem, open wheel racing hemorrhaging drivers to NASCAR as fast as NASCAR will take them.

250,000 spectators at the Daytona 500 alone not counting the number of people who watched it in this country or the 150 other countrys where it was also broadcast. I'd love to know the amount of money spent by the 250,000 spectator for tickets, merchandise, hotels, rental cars, rooms, food, gas, entertainment, etc while at the Daytona 500. Add that along with the drivers, their crews, officials, media members, vendors and everybody else brought together to make the Daytona 500 happen I can't even imagine the amount of money spent and made.

I think there are people who refuse to give up their VHS tapes, their dial up modems, or cassette decks there are people who're stuck in a NASCAR era when Dale Earnhardt dominated the sport or Junior Johnson or Cale Yarborough or who ever. Some feel as NASCAR should have stayed with many of the tracks that are now long gone era of yesteryear.

I don't think NASCAR is looking back, if anything they are looking forward. I think NASCAR is getting bigger and bigger and that it's here to stay.

Sure NASCAR has it's problems, and they do keep a tight rein on their driver's and their driver's behavior and image. Unless they want to turn into the NFL, NBA, or MLB they will have to. Those players are constantly being arrested for drugs, steroids, rape, assault, dog fighting etc.

Can you imagine these head lines:

Jimmie Johnson arrested on charges of raping a hotel employee.

Kyle Petty caught smoking crack.

Ryan Newman charged with beating his wife.

Mark Martin investigated by FBI for kiddie porn.

Jeff Gordon found by investigators to have a chicken fighting stadium in his back yard.

Carl Edwards arrested for drunk driving and marijuana charges.

Casey Mears arrested for solicitation of a prostitute.

Tony Stewart doing time for drug and weapon charges.

Matt Kenesth suspended for betting on NASCAR races.


I'm sure these guys aren't lilly white angels of perfection, but at least we don't have to read articles with healines like that in NASCAR Illustrated.

That's why I dumped watching major league sports and have become an ardent NASCAR fan!

IMHO

[simple simon]

wow, this response could take awhile ...... as we disagree on so many points

Originally Posted by kcoruol

NASCAR has lost it's fan base.

i have no clue where you get that idea

I think for a lot of NASCAR fans, NASCAR with out Dale Earnhardt will never be what it once was. With no where to go these fans latched on to DEJ. But now DEJ has left DEI, the #8, and Budweiser.

These fans probably feel lost and disoriented.

i was a fan of Sr for his entire career and i never 'latched' on to Jr

What will they do with all their Budweiser #8 merchandise they've invested in?

they will keep it and treasure it .... what did Q do with his Dale Jarrett stuff ........ its not like this is the first time a driver has changed teams or sponsors

What is this drink called AMP?

What is AMP?

What happened to Mountain Dew?
Every body knows what Mountain Dew is, what it taste like and where to buy it.

i live in a town in central Maine with less then 5000 people ... we have had Amp for years

And if going to HMS isn't a slap in the face of every DE and DEJ fan I don't know what is.

seems alot of them realize it was the best move he could make

IMHO, NASCAR is an unstoppable Juggernaut in sports, media, merchandising and money.

Some of the biggest names in music performed at the Daytona 500, Thunderbirds fly over, Trisha Yearwood singing the National Anthem, open wheel racing hemorrhaging drivers to NASCAR as fast as NASCAR will take them.

250,000 spectators at the Daytona 500 alone not counting the number of people who watched it in this country or the 150 other countrys where it was also broadcast. I'd love to know the amount of money spent by the 250,000 spectator for tickets, merchandise, hotels, rental cars, rooms, food, gas, entertainment, etc while at the Daytona 500. Add that along with the drivers, their crews, officials, media members, vendors and everybody else brought together to make the Daytona 500 happen I can't even imagine the amount of money spent and made.

this seems to totally contradict your point that NASCAR is suffering

Sure NASCAR has it's problems, and they do keep a tight rein on their driver's and their driver's behavior and image. Unless they want to turn into the NFL, NBA, or MLB they will have to. Those players are constantly being arrested for drugs, steroids, rape, assault, dog fighting etc.

Can you imagine these head lines:

Jimmie Johnson arrested on charges of raping a hotel employee.

Kyle Petty caught smoking crack.

Ryan Newman charged with beating his wife.

Mark Martin investigated by FBI for kiddie porn.

Jeff Gordon found by investigators to have a chicken fighting stadium in his back yard.

Carl Edwards arrested for drunk driving and marijuana charges.

Casey Mears arrested for solicitation of a prostitute.

Tony Stewart doing time for drug and weapon charges.

Matt Kenesth suspended for betting on NASCAR races.


I'm sure these guys aren't lilly white angels of perfection, but at least we don't have to read articles with healines like that in NASCAR Illustrated.

That's why I dumped watching major league sports and have become an ardent NASCAR fan!

IMHO

keep in mind ..... NASCAR has about 50 drivers ..... where the NFL for example has over 1200 players .... that makes a difference

and NASCAR has its issues ..... last year i remember Mikey Waltrip left the scene of an accident

as for drug use and sleeping around .. read about Tim Richmond

[Phils20]

I do think NASCAR will one day have some of the issues that were in your headlines. We have already had some things pop up!

Aaron Fike arrested with heroin

Shane Hmiel with a lifetime ban for drugs

Kurt Busch mouthing off to the cops, and getting probation

Tony Stewart shoving reporters and kicking equipment

I think it will take some time to get as bad as everyone else, but these folks are just a mirror for society.

Twenty years ago, when the press wasn't all over these folks, there were some shady happenings.

The exploits of certain drivers, that I've only heard in Rumors, sure don't make them angels. Some of these exploits were cut down when they started bringing the RV's, and the families became a lot more involved. If 1/4 of what I have heard from the "old days" just here in Dover are true, these guys were far from the paragons of virtue we'd like them to be.

And that is fine with me.

But I hope we are all adult enough to not believe that our driving hero's are above what we have seen in other sports.

I love what they do on the track, but I don't have any illusions about what they are like off it.

I've been in the garage and pits enough to hear and see some things that are FAR from the image these folks throw out to the public.

I cheer as loud as anyone on Sundays, and agree that NASCAR as still not near as corrupt and dirty as some other pro sports, but I just think we need to be real about this.

Cheer for them on the track, but keep your eyes and ears open, and don't anyone get thier hearts broken when someday their heroes let them down!

[Phils20]

Just one thing Simon, Tim Richmond slept around, but it was never proven that he did drugs. When NASCAR suspended him, the only drug he popped for was an anti AIDS drug.

David Poole has written a great Bio of him that is out in the store now. It's a quick read, and I think David is objective enough to tell the truth.

And I'm not ripping you for saying it, but there just isn't any proof. NASCAR just knew he wasn't being honest. It was obvious to everyone that he was sick, and it was sure as hell something worse than the flu. They wanted him off the track, and did some dirty things to do it.

I guess that is another example of how dirty things can be in the sport, but this time it's the sanctioning body.

And since Tim was single, it is not exactly illegal to "sleep around". I imagine a lot of the single drivers today have quite a few girlfriends!

No surprise there. And David Poole, according to his book, has vouched for the fact that an independent drug test for Tim proved that he didn't have any drugs in his system other than the AIDS drugs.

[ScottRide]

I think old and new NASCAR fans would agree that we need to keep the historic tracks. All the fans i know that are just getting into NASCAR say these weeks are the most enjoyable to watch on tv cause all the extra coverage it gets.

[jks812]

1. Races are boring. For the most part last year that was true for alot of them. But I have to say, I really enjoyed the 500 this year. Usually I watch the first 50 laps and leave and come back for the end. This year, I watched every lap.
2. I was a Sr fan and I didn't latch onto Jr just because his dad died. I started watching Jr in Busch.
3. As far as what to do with Jr's 8 merchandise. I have tons of it and I will keep it. It still means to me today what it did the day I bought it. I'm just sitting his new cars on the shelf under the old ones.
4. Small town Mississippi here and we know what Amp is, and have for awhile.

[wingkey1]

kcoruol, as you transitioned:

"And if going to HMS isn't a slap in the face of every DE and DEJ fan I don't know what is.

Right around/between here in the opening post

Did anybody watch the Daytona 500 this week?"

Not sure all transitioned with you.


I sure didn't on quick initial look. Better second look saw the "Point / Counter-point" within.

We try to keep our watching/enjoying simple and not get pulled in to the soap opera, fairy tales, mud slingling, lying, etc. We get enough of that in politics.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

kcoruol, as you transitioned:

"And if going to HMS isn't a slap in the face of every DE and DEJ fan I don't know what is.

Right around/between here in the opening post

Did anybody watch the Daytona 500 this week?"

Not sure all transitioned with you.


I sure didn't on quick initial look. Better second look saw the "Point / Counter-point" within.

We try to keep our watching/enjoying simple and not get pulled in to the soap opera, fairy tales, mud slingling, lying, etc. We get enough of that in politics.

ditto.....

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by kcoruol

NASCAR has lost it's fan base.

NASCAR is suffering from low ticket sales and declining ratings.

NASCAR races are boring.

I think for a lot of NASCAR fans, NASCAR with out Dale Earnhardt will never be what it once was. With no where to go these fans latched on to DEJ. But now DEJ has left DEI, the #8, and Budweiser.

These fans probably feel lost and disoriented.

What will they do with all their Budweiser #8 merchandise they've invested in?

What is this drink called AMP?

What is AMP?

What happened to Mountain Dew?
Every body knows what Mountain Dew is, what it taste like and where to buy it.

And if going to HMS isn't a slap in the face of every DE and DEJ fan I don't know what is.

Did anybody watch the Daytona 500 this week?

IMHO, NASCAR is an unstoppable Juggernaut in sports, media, merchandising and money.

Some of the biggest names in music performed at the Daytona 500, Thunderbirds fly over, Trisha Yearwood singing the National Anthem, open wheel racing hemorrhaging drivers to NASCAR as fast as NASCAR will take them.

250,000 spectators at the Daytona 500 alone not counting the number of people who watched it in this country or the 150 other countrys where it was also broadcast. I'd love to know the amount of money spent by the 250,000 spectator for tickets, merchandise, hotels, rental cars, rooms, food, gas, entertainment, etc while at the Daytona 500. Add that along with the drivers, their crews, officials, media members, vendors and everybody else brought together to make the Daytona 500 happen I can't even imagine the amount of money spent and made.

I think there are people who refuse to give up their VHS tapes, their dial up modems, or cassette decks there are people who're stuck in a NASCAR era when Dale Earnhardt dominated the sport or Junior Johnson or Cale Yarborough or who ever. Some feel as NASCAR should have stayed with many of the tracks that are now long gone era of yesteryear.

I don't think NASCAR is looking back, if anything they are looking forward. I think NASCAR is getting bigger and bigger and that it's here to stay.

Sure NASCAR has it's problems, and they do keep a tight rein on their driver's and their driver's behavior and image. Unless they want to turn into the NFL, NBA, or MLB they will have to. Those players are constantly being arrested for drugs, steroids, rape, assault, dog fighting etc.

Can you imagine these head lines:

Jimmie Johnson arrested on charges of raping a hotel employee.

Kyle Petty caught smoking crack.

Ryan Newman charged with beating his wife.

Mark Martin investigated by FBI for kiddie porn.

Jeff Gordon found by investigators to have a chicken fighting stadium in his back yard.

Carl Edwards arrested for drunk driving and marijuana charges.

Casey Mears arrested for solicitation of a prostitute.

Tony Stewart doing time for drug and weapon charges.

Matt Kenesth suspended for betting on NASCAR races.


I'm sure these guys aren't lilly white angels of perfection, but at least we don't have to read articles with healines like that in NASCAR Illustrated.

That's why I dumped watching major league sports and have become an ardent NASCAR fan!

IMHO

I'm not the sharpest tack in the box but this post while intriguing is a couple degrees left of center for me.

Where is the fan base and what are the demographics of said fan base ??? For me the fan base is still there but is just different from 20 years ago. Am I happy with todays fan base ? No but I can live with it while I complain about it.

Ratings decline/Races Boring ?? Yes but only to a degree (for me) My ratings remain the same. I try to watch every race unless I have something life (wife) threatening going on. Boring well maybe. There are some fixes to that which we at GTG NASCAR have suggested to the France family but they have yet to respond ?????

NASCAR without Dale Sr ???? While I may miss the excitement he cast upon the sport, I move on. There are other people in my life that I "miss". Dale passed through and is a memory. I watch the races to see racing. I'm not real particular who it is that is racing.

Who really cares about AMP, special hats, shirts, a particular beer ??? I couldn't care less what number a driver is or the sponsor they hawk for. Show me the race. Just because Ryan Newman won the 500 and is sponsored by Alltel, it doesn't mean I'm switching to that company. I find it easy to separate my life from that of a sponsorship racing around the track and ending up in victory lane. I'm not that easily sold.

If NASCAR is looking forward, and I believe they are, then that is a good thing for them. They are a business and as much as I hate seeing the sport change in the ways that it does, they are in it to make a profit and they will do whatever it takes to get there. By no means am I defending the direction they are taking, but lets face it. It's all about $$$$$

The possible headlines ... if you live long enough you'll see them all come true and if you dig deep enough you'll see that some of those headlines are fact.

[NascarRacer56]

My two cents worth.

I think that a lot of us look at the time that we first became fans more romantically than we tend to do with the here and now.

And I think that is the fan base that Nascar is trying to regain this year.

As far as Nascar doing things to drive fans away?

I can think of a few.

Dropping long time tracks such as North Wilkesboro and Rockingham.

Taking the Southern 500 from Darlington and making California their Labor Day weekend race.

To me, that's one of the worst moves they have made.

Just like the Indy 500 is on Memorial Day weekend, the Southern 500 needs to be on Labor Day weekend, and it needs to be at Darlington!

I also think that allowing Toyota in, when they don't even manufacture a V8 for any of their production cars, is a big mistake.

[OrionBen]

Originally Posted by kcoruol

NASCAR is suffering from low ticket sales and declining ratings.

80% fill at Fontana is probably more than 100% Rockingham.
Rating were up at Daytona and still much higher than 10 years ago, when it was still a SouthEastern sport

NASCAR races are boring.

What is boring for one might be great for someone else. I love last Bristol race with COT, so much green flag pass. But a lot of fan watch for crash.
But yeah, there was some snoozer last year.

As to answer the Title, I don't think NASCAR is in decline, it is growing and in the process of finding the best way to please old and new fan.

I think for a lot of NASCAR fans, NASCAR with out Dale Earnhardt will never be what it once was. With no where to go these fans latched on to DEJ. But now DEJ has left DEI, the #8, and Budweiser.
These fans probably feel lost and disoriented.

Listening to Claire B Lang on XM, I realized that a lot of DESr still are grieving his death. It's been 7 years, and some of those folk would not grieve their wife/husband that long if something was to happen.

And yes, a lot of Dad became son fans and some still think that son = dad.

What will they do with all their Budweiser #8 merchandise they've invested in?

Keep it in boxes and buy Green Amp and Blue National Guard stuff. NASCAR marketing gurus are geniuses for merchandising.

What is this drink called AMP?

What is AMP?

What happened to Mountain Dew?
Every body knows what Mountain Dew is, what it taste like and where to buy it.

Guess we'll have to go try one

And if going to HMS isn't a slap in the face of every DE and DEJ fan I don't know what is.

See comment above son = dad. I am a Stewart fan, so for me that is the best move he could make. He want to stay chevrolet and HMS is the best place he can go. It's just like any good baseball player signing with the Yankees or Red Sox, they want to win.

Did anybody watch the Daytona 500 this week?

Guess so rating are up. Good race. Fast pace in the first part, and all incident at the end.

IMHO, NASCAR is an unstoppable Juggernaut in sports, media, merchandising and money.

Every empire will fall. From external enemy or from within. IMHO, Currently the biggest threat is Bruton Smith.

I think there are people who refuse to give up their VHS tapes, their dial up modems, or cassette decks there are people who're stuck in a NASCAR era when Dale Earnhardt dominated the sport or Junior Johnson or Cale Yarborough or who ever. Some feel as NASCAR should have stayed with many of the tracks that are now long gone era of yesteryear.

People will always think the past was better. IE The polo ground was such a better stadium for baseball and of Course watching last super bowl who the greatest QB of all time ....

Some of the old track can still have a place in the current calendar, I agree but for the sport to grow you need novelty. California is great, but not 2 times. I am for 1 race per track, there is enough track out there for 36 different venue (but it will be hard to convince removing second date at track such as Daytona, Bristol, Talladegga).

I don't think NASCAR is looking back, if anything they are looking forward. I think NASCAR is getting bigger and bigger and that it's here to stay.

There in lay the danger, once the US is all covered come international. And look what happened to open-wheel.

Sure NASCAR has it's problems, and they do keep a tight rein on their driver's and their driver's behavior and image. Unless they want to turn into the NFL, NBA, or MLB they will have to. Those players are constantly being arrested for drugs, steroids, rape, assault, dog fighting etc.

They are human, some are great some are jerk.

[WestCoast]

Originally Posted by NascarRacer56

Just like the Indy 500 is on Memorial Day weekend, the Southern 500 needs to be on Labor Day weekend, and it needs to be at Darlington!

I also think that allowing Toyota in, when they don't even manufacture a V8 for any of their production cars, is a big mistake.

I agree with you on Darlington, great track and date.
But you need to get with the times:
-Toyota's are built in the USA by Americans
- the V8 will be a thing of the past sooner than you think. They do, see Lexus
-GMC's 3.4L engines for the Equinox and Torrent are built in China, the transmissions are built in Japan.
-The Chassis for the Jeep Wrangler are built in S. Korea by the Hyundai Corp.
-A large percentage of ALL American cars are built in Ontario, Canada.
The list goes on, it's a global thing.