[Quality88]

This article was on ESPN.com. I thought it would be a good starter for a thread since alot of us believe the cup lite series has been discussed by all and many.

By Terry Blount
ESPN.com
The final four races of the Busch Series season are almost meaningless.

Kevin Harvick has a ridiculous 775-point lead and has clinched the championship. Clearly, NASCAR's version of Triple-A baseball could have used a Chase format.


Take a wild guess who agrees with that idea? None other than Mr. Harvick himself.

"If they decide to have a Chase in the Busch Series, maybe lock the Cup guys out of it," Harvick said. "Make it where the Cup guys can't run for the championship. Make it just the top 10 Busch teams."

Harvick made his comments last month in a satellite interview with members of the Texas media. Harvick could become the first person to win the Busch and Cup championship in the same season.

He realizes the Busch Series today is dominated by Cup regulars who run in the Busch races for top Cup teams. He's taken advantage of the system, but Harvick knows changes are needed to keep regular Busch teams from going out of business.

"I believe there are things we can do to make the stand-alone Busch guys more of a story," Harvick said. "We need to get them more exposure on television so the sponsors are happy.

"Right now, the sponsors want Cup guys. They're winning the races and getting all the TV time. I believe there's a balance we can find for everybody to race, but I also believe the Busch regulars need more of a story put behind them."

Eight of the top 10 drivers in the Busch standings are full-time Cup drivers. Paul Menard, the true Busch champion this season, ranks seventh, and Johnny Sauter ranks ninth. The drivers ranked 11th through 19th all are Busch regulars.

If NASCAR had a 10-race Busch Chase, using the same rules as the Cup Chase, 10 drivers would have made the cutoff after the 25th race. Busch has one less race than Cup this season.

To get 10 Busch drivers in the Chase, the cutoff point would have come at Todd Kluever in 18th place. Only 12 Busch regulars had competed in every Busch race up to the 25th event.

Part of the reason for it is stand-alone Busch teams can't afford to compete with Cup teams racing full time in the series. It takes $5 million to $7 million a year to even consider being competitive.

But the Busch guys can't get major sponsors. Those companies go to the Cup drivers running in Busch. They have the name recognition, and they are the guys running up front most of the time.

Because of the testing limitations in Cup, more Cup drivers than ever are racing full time in Busch.

Rookie Cup drivers Reed Sorenson, Clint Bowyer, J.J. Yeley and Denny Hamlin all raced a full Busch schedule to gain more track time at each event.

Eliminating Cup drivers from the Busch Series isn't an option as far as track operators are concerned. They say the Cup entries are needed to sell tickets to the Busch events.

NASCAR isn't going to stop Cup drivers from racing in Busch events, but some changes are needed to give the Busch regulars a fair shake. Don't allow Cup regulars to race a full Busch season. Place a limit of 12 to 15 Busch events a year for each full-time Cup driver.

Most young Busch drivers say they like having the Cup regulars in their events because it helps them get better. But the Busch drivers aren't competing on equal footing. The Cup drivers in Busch have better equipment and better crews.

NASCAR chairman Brian France has said he wants to see the Busch Series receive more media attention. Adding a Chase format is an easy way to do it.

And the best way to bring attention to Busch regulars is to give them a championship to shoot for instead of watching the Cup guys take their title.

The Craftsman Truck Series doesn't have the same problem of Cup domination, but the series also could use a Chase format. Todd Bodine has a 79-point lead over Johnny Benson with four races remaining, but Benson is the only driver within 250 points of Bodine.

A Truck Chase would require a reduced version of the format, maybe eight races instead of 10. The NCTS has only 25 races a year.

Both Busch and Trucks join the Cup Series at the final three events of the season. Both feeder leagues are overlooked down the stretch because media and fans are focusing on the Chase. It's worse this year because Harvick has sewn up the Busch crown so early.

It doesn't have to be that way. Give both series a Chase and add some much-needed excitement for teams that really deserve it.

[oncea3fan]

that was a good read 88,

I agree there needs to be something done about the cup drivers, maybe top 15 in cup points can't run the busch race or something.

any time you let a top cup team run the busch race chances are good that they'll either win or top 5 it, and that takes away from the busch teams.

it used tobe that the top busch guy's could pick up a field filler ride in cup to get more experence.

I am courious to see what brian frence comes up with, but at the same time it kinda scares me to think about it

[LSC9901]

How much do I hate thee ?? Let me count the ways.

This is a subject that comes up on these forums occassionally and the reason why it comes up is what angers me. "MY" opinion is that cup drivers should race in the cup series and that is it. I know there are differeing opinions and I really do respect them. I get angry because someone like Kevin Harvick, a cup driver with big financial backing, comes down to the minor leagues and tears them a new rump. Granted he has run the entire series but all the others use it as a testing ground and a tune up for the cup race.

To me the idea that the Busch series needs a chase is insane. My perception of Busch is that it the final step in the training ground for the Cup series. How many triple "A" baseball teams are seen on TV ???? They do have a series championship .... after the regular season. The minor leagues are what they are ... training grounds. Other than for rehab how many major league ball players return to the minors to help the team win a championship ? Right !!!!! NONE.

Brian France is in the NA$CAR business to make money. Plain and simple. He is also destroying the long standing relationsip of the fans. I could go on and on over this subject as it is probably the one, or at least a major one, that just irritates the bejeezum out of me.

Go play on your own ball field.

[drnascar48]

I agree 101% that they need to have a chase setup in the Nascar Busch grand national series. I think Nascar also needs to put a chase setup in the Truck series too. Because it is true the last 4 races in the busch series is pointless because Kevin Harvick has already locked the championship. So what is the point of going onto the next 4 races. Nascar so just stop racing the Busch Series right now. Harvick already has the cahmponship. I think they need t have a chase setup in he bushc series because it has been a Nextel cup driver always wins a Busch series championship. I also think that Nascar needs to stop letting the nextel cup drivers from being in busch series races. I think if nascar does put in this chase setup in the busch they need to tell the cup boys they race in that series anymore because of the chase setup.

[LSC9901]

Thre is yet another reason why I dislike the chase idea. I'm no whiz at calculating how the standings would be without the chase but doesn't anyone besides me think it is unfair for drivers to be locked into places 1 through 10 no matter how poorly they do in the final 10 races? A lot can happen when you have about 28% of your season left and you are locking out drivers that may otherwise have a chance at moving into the top 10 therefore earning more prize money and increased chances at getting more and better sponsorship. Since the chase is all about places 1 through 10 why not have an extra 5 races at the end of the 36 race season and decide from that point ??? Let the other 33 drivers go home. They did all they could in the REGULAR 36 RACE SEASON.

[clutch]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Thre is yet another reason why I dislike the chase idea. I'm no whiz at calculating how the standings would be without the chase but doesn't anyone besides me think it is unfair for drivers to be locked into places 1 through 10 no matter how poorly they do in the final 10 races? A lot can happen when you have about 28% of your season left and you are locking out drivers that may otherwise have a chance at moving into the top 10 therefore earning more prize money and increased chances at getting more and better sponsorship. Since the chase is all about places 1 through 10 why not have an extra 5 races at the end of the 36 race season and decide from that point ??? Let the other 33 drivers go home. They did all they could in the REGULAR 36 RACE SEASON.

.....I think your thoughts are quite right.........The Chase is essentially, the Playoffs. So should the non performers be involved? We saw in the past few weeks how they can cause havoc

[wardfan]

I find it weird that some of you guys talk like there is no point watching the rest of the season because, in this case, the busch championship is locked up. Maybe Harvick was already won the championship at this point but why would you not want to watch the rest of the season to see who wins the rest of the races? Just because the championship is decided already, how does that make the rest of the races less exciting? There are still 43 drivers trying to win each week.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by wardfan

I find it weird that some of you guys talk like there is no point watching the rest of the season because, in this case, the busch championship is locked up. Maybe Harvick was already won the championship at this point but why would you not want to watch the rest of the season to see who wins the rest of the races? Just because the championship is decided already, how does that make the rest of the races less exciting? There are still 43 drivers trying to win each week.

Today's fan is more interested in can drama then racin. If there is no excitement they don't care. If their driver can't win the title they don't care. That's what that idiot France is caterin to. IMHO

[wingkey1]

Many have already heard the concept that the “chase” approach is simply preparation for the split of NASCAR into leagues/divisions. The top 10 from each league/division will run the playoffs/world series. Eliminates the “should Chasers be running with the losers” questions. The only ones running will be “Chasers”. This is coming if NASCAR continues / wants to continue to grow. They simply cannot run more races, in more places with the limitations that exist, and in order to grow they must run more races in more places. COT helps ensure all leagues/divisions are using the same equipment.

The majority of the drivers and owners (at least those playing with a near full deck) don’t really complain all that loudly, if at all, about the chase. Similarly they do not complain all that loudly over COT. Why? Because they well know that as NASCAR goes, they go. NASCAR grows, they grow and the vice is versa. You’ll hear “input” where there is a sense of true inequity, and we may even see some “adjustments” where true inequity is found. Maybe within 400 points by race 26 becomes within some greater number of points by race 26 – maybe. Gotta be careful here though because there could be that 1 in 100 years in which 20 are within 400 points of the leader and then you’ve got a field of 20 in the chase. That may sound not so bad now but in a world of 3 or 4 divisions ya got yourself 60 to 80 in the Chase. That ain’t a race, that’s gridlock. Point being there cannot be rules/systems adjusted constantly to meet exceptions particularly if there is a longer term plan for which the current system has been architected.

Think about the driver or team that would whine a bit too loud. Anybody forcing them to stay with NASCAR? Aren’t they free to go elsewhere to make and enjoy the lifestyle and living they have now? Does anyone really have to think more than a nanosecond to come to the – “where else is there” – question/conclusion. Hence whining will be “prudent” in considerations of ones well being.

When the Chase was first announced something in me just did not like it. It broke too much from “tradition” for me I guess. Who knows, should NASCAR go “growth flat”, perhaps tradition will prevail and – no more Chase. Think I’ll just, as always, enjoy the race. Won’t get too wrapped up in Chaser vs. non-Chaser. Will get real wrapped up in the good old – Racer vs. Racer. As one on this forum often expresses – Shut up and race.

[LSC9901]

Very interesting and well thought out post WingKey. It all makes sense. It will be a dramatic change for the fan base tjough. Unless you are a real NA$CAR junkie there will be many teams/drivers that you know very little about. As Bob Tanner once recently posted there are many who do not watch the CTS because They don't know the drivers. Having more races in more locations will undoubtedly increase my chances of going to a race close to home and for the fan that is great. It will allow more teams to race and will accomplish what the France family or anyone else could not do and that is to get more races per year ... somehow. The championship will have a totally different look to the fan because we will be seeing some drivers for the 1st time in that year and we may very well end up with a champion we know nothing about. Sort of like when the Red Sox won after 86 years. The record books will take on an all different system also. Our era will no longer be consiedred the "modern era" of racing !!!!

[wingkey1]

LSC9901: "The championship will have a totally different look to the fan because we will be seeing some drivers for the 1st time in that year and we may very well end up with a champion we know nothing about".

Wow. That's an even gooder thought provoker / post. Challenge to the sanctioning body (NASCAR) will be to ensure somehow the proper/adequate exposure across the whole of the divided sport. Or perhaps what you try to foster is "divisional" fans (for lack of better description). Wow (again). The challenge here is fun to just think about.

[nascarfan24]

i think the chase should be in every NASCAR series

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by nascarfan24

i think the chase should be in every NASCAR series

I would argue no because that would destroy the CTS.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Wow. That's an even gooder thought provoker / post. Challenge to the sanctioning body (NASCAR) will be to ensure somehow the proper/adequate exposure across the whole of the divided sport. Or perhaps what you try to foster is "divisional" fans (for lack of better description). Wow (again). The challenge here is fun to just think about.

I would hope that each week we would see a different division or maybe even have races on Sat. afternoon and evening and the same for Sunday. That way we could watch 4 different leagues/divisions. After the 36 race season we could then have the playoffs and then the championship and then the all star race and then .......

Oh yeah bring it on. days and days of racing.

[Quality88]

Let's have the CTS vs Winston Cup. Of course the advantage would be to the trucks as they could have their fenders dented in and still win.