[nascar_freak]

Originally Posted by Robertdjr

Nothing's ever wrong in lollipop land...

That's priceless. Almost pee'ed my pants laughing!!

[Bob Tanner]

I agree woth bob101. NA__AR doesn't see a problem. In fact I have a suspicion that they see success.

For example, a couple years ago Harvick beat Mark martin to the flag in the Daytona 500 by a whisker. A really exciting finish. Anyone who watched that finish without emotion either has ice water in their veins, or they were in a coma. That action was replayed as advertising a handful of times in the following twelve months and displayed leading up the the next year's 500. Then... <poof> I don't recall seeing it but once or twice since.

Last spring Edwards almost went into the stands and spectators were injured. That clip has played over over and over and probably would continue to be NA__AR's major advertisement but now they have Ryan and Martin going over.

In the CTS, how many times this season have we seen replays of Mike Skinner's truck slamming the wall and bouncing 4-5 feet in the air?

NA__AR loves it! The good racing action is an afterthought to the wrecks and carnage. For all the parade laps run, the NA__AR shirts still had their "Big One" and spectacular flips, rolls and a debris-strewn track. They could throw a late race caution without fear of we fans screaming "Phantom debris!"

No, bob101 is spot on. NA__AR just doesn't see a problem.

[thunderfoot]

I still think the solution is simple. Limit the compression to a 9:1 motor and go to a 390 carb. The engine would live, the racing would be tighter and the drivers would get to run equal. We have ran that motor for years in the Northwest and had great racing. I think the rear deck lid wing is what got Newman airborn. Go back to the rear spoiler we ran for years. Turn the car around and the wing gives lift instead of down force. Who couldnt see that one coming down the trail?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by thunderfoot

I still think the solution is simple. Limit the compression to a 9:1 motor and go to a 390 carb. The engine would live, the racing would be tighter and the drivers would get to run equal. We have ran that motor for years in the Northwest and had great racing. I think the rear deck lid wing is what got Newman airborn. Go back to the rear spoiler we ran for years. Turn the car around and the wing gives lift instead of down force. Who couldnt see that one coming down the trail?

As long as they let them run specially built motors, they'd just wind them up tighter and tighter. pretty soon they'd be running 12 grand all day and we'd be back to where we currently are.

My solution remains the same as it always has been: Run bodies which conform to a STOCK factory template, except for wheel wells, and run stock factory engines (including F.I.) which are appropriate for the car the engine is being run in. Use high performance parts which are only available through the manufacturer.

Result: No more artificially made aerodynamic bodies, which would go far in producing actual on-track racing, and no more "What the hell kind if engine is that?" hand built engines. Operating cost goes down, the engineers are in the factories where they belong, not the race shops (which should be the domain of the master mechanic!), and "Stock Car" returns to NA__AR.

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

As long as they let them run specially built motors, they'd just wind them up tighter and tighter. pretty soon they'd be running 12 grand all day and we'd be back to where we currently are.

My solution remains the same as it always has been: Run bodies which conform to a STOCK factory template, except for wheel wells, and run stock factory engines (including F.I.) which are appropriate for the car the engine is being run in. Use high performance parts which are only available through the manufacturer.

Result: No more artificially made aerodynamic bodies, which would go far in producing actual on-track racing, and no more "What the hell kind if engine is that?" hand built engines. Operating cost goes down, the engineers are in the factories where they belong, not the race shops (which should be the domain of the master mechanic!), and "Stock Car" returns to NA__AR.

Problem is, what you say hasn't happened since the 60s or something, when some begun building frame cars for several reasons, safety being one of them.
It stoped being about turning a production car into a racecar, and it became about making a racecar (that looked like a production car) then turning then into street-legal/homologation cars that never made any profit to go "stock car racing".

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

Problem is, what you say hasn't happened since the 60s or something, when some begun building frame cars for several reasons, safety being one of them.
It stoped being about turning a production car into a racecar, and it became about making a racecar (that looked like a production car) then turning then into street-legal/homologation cars that never made any profit to go "stock car racing".

I have no problem with using race chassis. You and I both know racing completely stock cars, straight off the assembly lines, would be so impractical that it was be ludicrous. They need specially designed chassis for many reason, safety being one of the main ones.

As far as the "Muscle car" concept, which was a money loser from the git-go, I see your point. But, virtually all the auto makers have made production performance cars. The reason the muscle cars weren't profitable was that the auto makers went overboard and tried to hybrid a "custom-built" car with an assembly line model. Lamborghini could do it, GM and MOPAR couldn't. The manufacturers put themselves in an unwinnable position. The only one to succeed was GM with its Corvette, which ran on a different marketing model from the muscle cars.

I sincerely feel that there is a market out there for a race series which utilizes the formula I allude to; stock appearing bodies (with certain minimal but necessary modifications) using stock engines and stock engine and drive train performance parts. It would utilize the current technology, and fans would see racing vehicles they could relate to, it would be a boon to the manufacturers and would be much less costly for the participants. In addition, such a series would put racing back in the hands of the mechanics and the drivers and NOT the engineers (except the engineers employed by the manufacturers themselves).

I honestly believe that the founders of auto racing had the right idea. I think Bill France Sr. had the right idea. Strictly Stock is the answer.

Yes, I know, they've tried it before. Japan's Super Taikyu and IMSA's Firehawk Series are but two examples. But those were in the '80's and 90's when CART and NASCAR were kings. I think it's time for another try at the Strictly Stock formula. I think the economy and the decline in interest in more expensive types of racing might allow this concept to now succeed.

But... as always, I could well be wrong.

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I have no problem with using race chassis. You and I both know racing completely stock cars, straight off the assembly lines, would be so impractical that it was be ludicrous. They need specially designed chassis for many reason, safety being one of the main ones.

As far as the "Muscle car" concept, which was a money loser from the git-go, I see your point. But, virtually all the auto makers have made production performance cars. The reason the muscle cars weren't profitable was that the auto makers went overboard and tried to hybrid a "custom-built" car with an assembly line model. Lamborghini could do it, GM and MOPAR couldn't. The manufacturers put themselves in an unwinnable position. The only one to succeed was GM with its Corvette, which ran on a different marketing model from the muscle cars.

I sincerely feel that there is a market out there for a race series which utilizes the formula I allude to; stock appearing bodies (with certain minimal but necessary modifications) using stock engines and stock engine and drive train performance parts. It would utilize the current technology, and fans would see racing vehicles they could relate to, it would be a boon to the manufacturers and would be much less costly for the participants. In addition, such a series would put racing back in the hands of the mechanics and the drivers and NOT the engineers (except the engineers employed by the manufacturers themselves).

I honestly believe that the founders of auto racing had the right idea. I think Bill France Sr. had the right idea. Strictly Stock is the answer.

Yes, I know, they've tried it before. Japan's Super Taikyu and IMSA's Firehawk Series are but two examples. But those were in the '80's and 90's when CART and NASCAR were kings. I think it's time for another try at the Strictly Stock formula. I think the economy and the decline in interest in more expensive types of racing might allow this concept to now succeed.

But... as always, I could well be wrong.

NASCAR owns the Grand Am series witch has the GT class.





The Cadillac Grand-Am.
It's NASCAR's belief that the Cup is a different kettle of fish.

[WestCoast]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

NASCAR owns the Grand Am series witch has the GT class.

The GT class is fantastic, really entertain with close racing etc.
Unfortunately, it doesn't get enough or any air-time.

[kkfan91]

Yeah I watch a lot of the Grand Am races and the GT class is just mentioned in passing its the Daytona Prototypes that all the talk is about...probably cause they lap the GT's in about 10 minutes

[Bob Tanner]

Jim France's Grand Am/GT Series completely skipped my mind. I guess because I haven't had the opportunity to watch one of its races. As kkfan and WestCoast says, they are overshadowed by its "Big brother," and hence they get almost zero media time.

The series which I have enjoyed watching is the KONI Challenge.
No, until someone proves me wrong I will continue to beat the drum for a practical, modern day "Strictly Stock" racing series.

Give the public a racing series with vehicles the public can relate to, find some way to hype the series and give it a good marketing plan and a decent media contract (NOT on a Versus-type channel!), then run it fairly with easy-for-the-public-to-understand rules which are evenly and fairly administered. keep it as stock as possible enabling team owners to come from the ranks of the only moderately wealthy and I believe, with good public exposure, the public would eat it up and this "Formula NA__AR" we got now will become just a bad memory and we will have what Bill Sr. might have envisioned.

But, I'm not holding my breath.

[kkfan91]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

But, I'm not holding my breath.

thats probably a good thing

[nascaraddict]

Originally Posted by nascar_freak

That's priceless. Almost pee'ed my pants laughing!!

I love it to. Darn, I wish I knew how to work photoshop.