[loco4pablo]

Originally Posted by BrianFranceFan

My question was whats the point of this post? I mean..we are reminded day in and day out of how the old point system would be better. But...we run the chase format, so what ever the standings would have looked like back then mean nothin!

Brian you are kind of new here so let me tell ya, get use to it. You will hear it all here.
Members hate restrictor plate racing like last week, but they hate cookie cutter tracks more. They hate the chase but not as much as the COT. They can't stand Jimmy Johnson but not as much as Kyle Busch....It's actually quite comical sometimes

[Robertdjr]

Originally Posted by loco4pablo

Brian you are kind of new here so let me tell ya, get use to it.

Actually, he's not new here. He just reregisterd with a new name.

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Lets try this approach. Name the top 3 things that you would do for next year to keep JJ from winning again.

1]
2]
3]

Ha!
1] Trade Jimmy Johnson to RPM
2] Send Chad to Junior's team
3] Make Chandra crew chief

[Bob Tanner]

In my mind this isn't about drivers, it's about a system which was supposed to do something EVERY TIME, which is obviously doesn't, and can't. The ONLY way to get close points races every season is to manipulate the system to an extent that most fans just won't tolerate.

They had a great points system which wasn't broken but was in bad need of tweaking. It rewarded not performance but rather consistency. It still does, for that matter. Most here don't remember the system that was in effect before 1972 but Latford's system (the one used up until the playoff system in 2004) was a great improvement. The old system, which awarded points predicated on the length of the race and was broken down to tenths of a point, was so confusing the current format for choosing the field for the Daytona 500 looks like simple first grade math!)

Brian & Co. created this silly playoff system which strips points from a driver who has excelled for two thirds of the season, freezes out driver who have a possibility to having a late season improvement, thus gaining a place in the top yen and a seat at the big table at the banquet. It then resets the field for the final stretch, alleges that it will always be a nail-biting season finish and continues to reward consistency, thus just increasing the amount of points racing which the vast majority of race fans deplore.

The playoff system came about and was advertised as a way to [artificially] create excitement and draw S&B fans away from NFL and the World Series, a ploy which has obviously failed so badly that it would be laughable if it weren't so damn tragic. Our boy Lollipop's attempt to preempt the two biggest sports in the USA was so Quixotic that it makes Tennyson's Charge of the Light Brigade look like a total success!

Me? I'll take the former system every day of the week, and especially on Saturday's and Sunday's. Just tweak it, giving about 40-50 more points for winning, 20-30 more for second and 10-20 more for third. Cut the points after 25th place, throw about $5-$6 million of the season prize fund into the individual races throughout the season and we might see some good racing, at least until Brian has another of his brillant brain farts, anyway.

[loco4pablo]

I agree with ya Tanner....But if they didn't award points after 25th place, how would we have the top 35??

I really wish NASCAR would just stop trying to compete with the NFL/NCAA football and baseball post season.... Even in it's height of popularity nascar couldn't compete.
I know nascar has a lot of problems it needs to look at. But for me personally the biggest problem is the season is too damm long and there are too many races! The season should start the week after the Super bowl and finish late Sept. and having like a 28 race season. They have watered it down so much that people are no longer thirsty for it. If NASCAR went to some tracks/markets once a year they would probably sell out. But look at the south west, within a 250 mile radius you have 2 phoenix races, 2 fontana races and 1 vegas race. The damm beatles couldn't sell out that many dates in that area!!
Most of these tracks we don't need to be at 2 times a year!
A shorter season with less races would cut cost and make it more economical for sponsors to get in as well.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by oncea3fan

we don't use the old points , so it's a moot point!

Originally Posted by loco4pablo

I agree Bass.... As much as I hate the chase format, it's what they are using so it is what it is...

Ahhh but it isn't the old system !!!!! It's the system they use for 26 weeks and then change it to meet their fancy.

I understand that it is what it is and I begrudgingly accept it ... only because I have to accept it. I would also argue that no point is ever moot when it comes to NASCAR at least. If this were a true race to the championship it wouldn't happen this way. In no other sport does the championship occur in such a foolish manner. As was already noted it was changed because there was a runaway. Will it change this year because of the same reason ? Of course not. NASCAR will get to host a new record after this year. It doesn't matter how the record was gained as long at Brian & Company can claim that they made it.

I also stand by my right to offer an opinion. If this is one of those discussions that drives ya crazy ... then why respond ??????????

[mike honcho]

Still no matter what old or new #8 still gets the smiley with the sunglasses.

[bob101]

It is a big difference. 7 points is less than 3 spots on a single race. Or leading a lap and 1 spot etc....

184 points is 11 points shy of the maximum you can obtain at a single race if you lead the most laps and win.

Huge difference.

Personally I never cared for the chase. They wanted people to tune into the last races when the championship was decided...but what happened was for at least the first half of the chase so many "in the chase" were points racing and not going for a win.

Winning has been replaced by points racing all season now.

Personally I'd love to see the chase go away. Make the point system non linear. Right now the difference between 34th and 35th is 3 points in a finish. The same as the difference between 1st and 2nd. I'd love to see a non linear system where if you pass from 3rd to 2nd you gain more points than if you pass from 35th to 34th.

That would put a whole new emphasis on winning and getting to the front. Period. It also eliminates that get out ahead and then ride around in the back the last few races of the championship to protect your lead.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by bob101

I'd love to see a non linear system where if you pass from 3rd to 2nd you gain more points than if you pass from 35th to 34th.

Bob can you explain this concept in a little more depth ? Are you talking about moving from 3rd to 2nd in points standings ??? or just the race itself. If it is just the race are you talking about the team that starts in 3rd ?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by loco4pablo

I agree with ya Tanner....But if they didn't award points after 25th place, how would we have the top 35??

I really wish NASCAR would just stop trying to compete with the NFL/NCAA football and baseball post season.... Even in it's height of popularity nascar couldn't compete.
I know nascar has a lot of problems it needs to look at. But for me personally the biggest problem is the season is too damm long and there are too many races! The season should start the week after the Super bowl and finish late Sept. and having like a 28 race season. They have watered it down so much that people are no longer thirsty for it. If NASCAR went to some tracks/markets once a year they would probably sell out. But look at the south west, within a 250 mile radius you have 2 phoenix races, 2 fontana races and 1 vegas race. The damm beatles couldn't sell out that many dates in that area!!
Most of these tracks we don't need to be at 2 times a year!
A shorter season with less races would cut cost and make it more economical for sponsors to get in as well.

You are singing to the choir with that statement, loco. You and I are in complete agreement there. 23-25 races from February through September. Each race, except the Daytona 500, the final race and the World 600 would be measured in kilometers, except on the ½-mile tracks, which would be measured in laps.

It would end the over saturation of the sport, and make it less expensive for both teams and sponsors, as you note.

[loco4pablo]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

You are singing to the choir with that statement, loco. You and I are in complete agreement there. 23-25 races from February through September. Each race, except the Daytona 500, the final race and the World 600 would be measured in kilometers, except on the ½-mile tracks, which would be measured in laps.

It would end the over saturation of the sport, and make it less expensive for both teams and sponsors, as you note.

Wow we are agreeing here!! STOP THE PRESSES!! Talking to people and friends how really watch NASCAR on a regular basis all say the same thing and the #1 complaint they say is "the season is too long and it gets boring" By time Sept. gets here, they are NASCAR'd out and ready to move on to football and baseball pennant races & post season.
The NFL is smart, they keep the season to 5 months (Sept. thru Jan.) this keeps the fans fresh and hungry.

The Tracks of Daytona, Talladega, Charlotte, Bristol, Martinsville and Richmond should have 2 dates (12 total)
Homestead, Atlanta, Texas, Dover,Pocono,Darlington, N.Hamp., Michigan, Kansas, Phoenix, Vegas, Chicago, Indy, sears pt and Watkins Glen only get 1 date each (15)
Then throw in Kentucky and Iowa.... Which will give us a 29 race season which will end early sept.
You get rid of the chase period! And the all star race will be like baseball in a different location every year at one of the single race tracks. This will stop the track owners crying over not getting a chase race date.

As we both mentioned, the cost savings will be huge and sponsors will be able to afford it again and start up teams will be able to get in too.
Also this gives the NASCAR stars such as Kyle Busch, Edwards, Bowyer ect. more free time to race late models or whatever at NASCAR sanctioned local tracks!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by loco4pablo

Wow we are agreeing here!! STOP THE PRESSES!! Talking to people and friends how really watch NASCAR on a regular basis all say the same thing and the #1 complaint they say is "the season is too long and it gets boring" By time Sept. gets here, they are NASCAR'd out and ready to move on to football and baseball pennant races & post season.
The NFL is smart, they keep the season to 5 months (Sept. thru Jan.) this keeps the fans fresh and hungry.

The Tracks of Daytona, Talladega, Charlotte, Bristol, Martinsville and Richmond should have 2 dates (12 total)
Homestead, Atlanta, Texas, Dover,Pocono,Darlington, N.Hamp., Michigan, Kansas, Phoenix, Vegas, Chicago, Indy, sears pt and Watkins Glen only get 1 date each (15)
Then throw in Kentucky and Iowa.... Which will give us a 29 race season which will end early sept.
You get rid of the chase period! And the all star race will be like baseball in a different location every year at one of the single race tracks. This will stop the track owners crying over not getting a chase race date.

As we both mentioned, the cost savings will be huge and sponsors will be able to afford it again and start up teams will be able to get in too.
Also this gives the NASCAR stars such as Kyle Busch, Edwards, Bowyer ect. more free time to race late models or whatever at NASCAR sanctioned local tracks!

I like you schedule EXCEPT I would leave Charlotte with a single race and give a race to Nashville or the New Jersey Motor Sports Complex. Or take California completely off the schedule and give dates to the two I suggested or some other tracks in areas where there are deserving NASCAR fans. Naw. Now that I think about it, Charlotte is NA__AR's hub. I guess they deserve two races, even if the track is Cookie Cutter #1.

I have a feeling you and I agree on a lot of things. You just get tired of my rants. That's OK. When it comes to things I love and something happening to those things I disagree with, acceptance isn't one of my strong points. Kind of like our forefathers when they'd had enough of King George's taxation. They did a lot of ranting to, even in the face of those (Tories) who told them, "Why are you always complaining? You can change anything." (No! I'm NOT comparing myself to Thomas Jeffrson or Thomas Paine. It's the principle)

'Nuff said...

I look at the schedule as a kind of Law of Supply and Demand. The more things you put on the market, the cheaper they become and they are valued less. Lots of zirconium on the market and they aren't worth squat. Not a lot of cut diamonds and their price is up there. In 2000 Chevrolet produced 547,294 vehicles Cadillac made 158,944 in the same year U.S. Automobile Production Figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Which one would the average person prefer to own? You get the point.

If NA__AR would cut the number of races and shorten the races the product would be more in demand and we'd see sellouts once more, even in these bad economic times. People will always find ways to pay to be entertained IF that entertainment is good enough and in short supply.

[Robertdjr]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

People will always find ways to pay to be entertained IF that entertainment is good enough and in short supply.

Just to illustrate that, I grew up with a lot of good old boy rednecks and their families back in Georgia. They didn't live in fancy houses, most of them rented. They didn't drive brand new cars or pick-up trucks, they couldn't afford them. They never wore nice clothes, just blue jeans and t-shirts. They hardly ever paid their bills on time, even though they worked hard every day. But they always had enough money the same week the Fair rolled into town, and the same week NASCAR rolled into Atlanta. They would scrimp and save all year for those two events, because they got so much entertainment out of going. Hmm...I wonder if that's still the case today...

[kkfan91]

Originally Posted by loco4pablo

Wow we are agreeing here!! STOP THE PRESSES!! Talking to people and friends how really watch NASCAR on a regular basis all say the same thing and the #1 complaint they say is "the season is too long and it gets boring" By time Sept. gets here, they are NASCAR'd out and ready to move on to football and baseball pennant races & post season.
The NFL is smart, they keep the season to 5 months (Sept. thru Jan.) this keeps the fans fresh and hungry.

The Tracks of Daytona, Talladega, Charlotte, Bristol, Martinsville and Richmond should have 2 dates (12 total)
Homestead, Atlanta, Texas, Dover,Pocono,Darlington, N.Hamp., Michigan, Kansas, Phoenix, Vegas, Chicago, Indy, sears pt and Watkins Glen only get 1 date each (15)
Then throw in Kentucky and Iowa.... Which will give us a 29 race season which will end early sept.
You get rid of the chase period! And the all star race will be like baseball in a different location every year at one of the single race tracks. This will stop the track owners crying over not getting a chase race date.

As we both mentioned, the cost savings will be huge and sponsors will be able to afford it again and start up teams will be able to get in too.
Also this gives the NASCAR stars such as Kyle Busch, Edwards, Bowyer ect. more free time to race late models or whatever at NASCAR sanctioned local tracks!

I'll just make my usual arguement Dover is a unique track and needs 2 races and 30,000 less seats

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Robertdjr

Just to illustrate that, I grew up with a lot of good old boy rednecks and their families back in Georgia. They didn't live in fancy houses, most of them rented. They didn't drive brand new cars or pick-up trucks, they couldn't afford them. They never wore nice clothes, just blue jeans and t-shirts. They hardly ever paid their bills on time, even though they worked hard every day. But they always had enough money the same week the Fair rolled into town, and the same week NASCAR rolled into Atlanta. They would scrimp and save all year for those two events, because they got so much entertainment out of going. Hmm...I wonder if that's still the case today...

It is. How many people have you heard of (or maybe even know) who are on the verge of being homeless, out of work, broke, etc., etc., yet are still smoking cigarettes and always have beer in the frig? When it comes to induldging themselves, or being entertained, people will always find a way.

[kerribear17]

Originally Posted by OregonSHRFan

Now THIS should be fun!!
1) give Chad to Jr for the year
2) Make the #48 run on 7 cylinders every race
3) Dont allow JJ to have his UniBrow trimmed ... it will grow so much and get in his eye making it difficult to drive

Hahahahaha I like #3

I'd add in there to punt JJ into the wall