[Bob Tanner]

Yep, you read it right. Here are the two awards and their criteria:
About the Forrester Groundswell Awards
The Forrester Groundswell Awards recognize excellence in achieving business and organizational goals with social technology applications. The awards program was developed to support and recognize the principles outlined in the Forrester Research book Groundswell: Winning In A World Transformed By Social Technologies (Harvard Business Press, 200. This year, there were more than 140 entries to the Forrester Groundswell Awards. Winners were chosen in Business-to-Business (B2B) and Business-to-Consumer (B2C) divisions across a number of categories – Listening, Talking, Energizing, Supporting, and Embracing – that represent the strategic goals that Forrester Research advises organizations to consider when using social technologies to interact with their customers.

About the Vision Critical Awards
Given at the Vision Critical Client Panel Summits in Toronto and New York, this award recognizes the Vision Critical client who does the best job of engaging consumers and generating business results from that interaction, using their online panel community. In addition to NASCAR, finalists for the Panel of the Year Award included Taco Bell, Allure magazine, and Aeroplan. Vision Critical is a global research and technology company specializing in custom online panels, private communities, and innovative online methods. Vision Critical delivers both the technology and full service research to help clients build stronger connections with their customers using interactive surveys, discussion forums, and 3D environments.

Robertjr, you ought to loke this one. There is a lot in it about the NA__AR Fan Council you are a member of.

For the full story go to: The Frontstretch: One Day After Talladega, NASCAR Announces Awards For "Listening To the Fans" by Jeff Meyer -- Thursday November 5, 2009

[mike honcho]

Kinda like the Nobel Peace Prize

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by mike honcho

Kinda like the Nobel Peace Prize

If we're talking about the worthiness of the recipients of at least three of them, I am in total agreement.

[kkfan91]

I agree the last 3 noble prize winners totally deserved it..and we already got that thread locked so don't start that

[Robertdjr]

He certainly does a good job of trashing the fan council. I wouldn't expect anything less from a Frontstretch writer. So I take it he thinks it should be abandoned since we're not doing anything worth while. Oh well, he's entitled to his opinion. And the awards are absurd, if you ask me. I don't express my opinions and make my suggestions looking for an award. They may get NASCAR thumping their chests, but I seriously doubt I could take them to the grocery store and pay for my grits with them.

The bottom line is, it should not take the creation of an ‘“online panel” for the voices of the NASCAR consumers to be heard, and it doesn’t, as a few well-thrown beer cans in 2004 has already proven.

While I agree it should'nt take an online council for the fans to be heard, I'm not sure suggesting throwing beer cans is the better way to get NASCAR's attention. Personally, I wouldn't waste a good beer throwing it at NASCAR, even if it was a warm PBR.

[OregonSHRFan]

Im a Fan Council member as well

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Robertdjr

He certainly does a good job of trashing the fan council. I wouldn't expect anything less from a Frontstretch writer. So I take it he thinks it should be abandoned since we're not doing anything worth while. Oh well, he's entitled to his opinion. And the awards are absurd, if you ask me. I don't express my opinions and make my suggestions looking for an award. They may get NASCAR thumping their chests, but I seriously doubt I could take them to the grocery store and pay for my grits with them.

While I agree it should'nt take an online council for the fans to be heard, I'm not sure suggesting throwing beer cans is the better way to get NASCAR's attention. Personally, I wouldn't waste a good beer throwing it at NASCAR, even if it was a warm PBR.

I must be missing something, Robert. I read and re-read the piece and I don't see where he trashes the council. In fact, I interpret him as asking where was the council in 2004? Why hadn't NA__AR formed it before then? Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong?

That was why I mentioned you directly in the original post. I took the thing as NA__AR formed the group and on occasion has actually taken the input to heart. But, it isn't consistent and NA__AR would have been well served to have formed this council a half decade prior.

Personally, I think it's [the fan council's] a good idea and could be used much more, and to better ends than they have used you folks in the past. There isn't a doubt in my military mind that it was the council which gave the input which brought about the double file restarts and the uniform starting times (both changes which were absurdly late in being implemented!).

I also disagree that it shouldn't take a fan council to be heard. I think a honest, objective impartial select group of fans giving input to the governing body is the ideal way to instill communications from "The masses" to the "Rulers." I just believe that the "Rulers" should give more credit ("This is the change which originated within our fan council") and that they should listen more closely.

[Robertdjr]

Everything you say I can agree with, Bob, and I/we thank you for the vote of confidence. I'd like to think we make a difference. But when he said this...

...you are probably wondering just what in the world it was that NASCAR listened to us about. Believe it or not, their crowning achievements thus far are double-file restarts, as well as earlier and more uniform start times of the races in 2010.

And … that’s it.

So while I do accept that both of those things are very positive changes that needed to be made, I beg of you, don’t be stupid enough think that they were made because NASCAR suddenly created a wonderful online experience and took what the fans are saying to heart. It simply is not true, and in my opinion it’s nothing more than a PR stunt to make themselves feel good.

...I got the impression that's what he thinks of the NFC. We were created as a PR stunt to make NASCAR feel good about themselves. And I really couldn't find anywhere where he gave the NFC credit for both the changes he talked about. So I guess I got defensive.

Yes, I suppose I could be reading it the wrong way. I don't know. But I sure like you're assessment a whole lot better, Bob. Regardless, I still plan on expressing my opinions there, and hope they're more than just a PR stunt. If I ever got that feeling, I'd quit.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Robertdjr

Everything you say I can agree with, Bob, and I/we thank you for the vote of confidence. I'd like to think we make a difference. But when he said this...

...I got the impression that's what he thinks of the NFC. We were created as a PR stunt to make NASCAR feel good about themselves. And I really couldn't find anywhere where he gave the NFC credit for both the changes he talked about. So I guess I got defensive.

Yes, I suppose I could be reading it the wrong way. I don't know. But I sure like you're assessment a whole lot better, Bob. Regardless, I still plan on expressing my opinions there, and hope they're more than just a PR stunt. If I ever got that feeling, I'd quit.

Once more we read it differently. I read it as a slam toward NA__AR in that they created the NFC strictly as a feel-good, PR project. What they got (Law of Unintended Consequences applies) was an actual body of people who cared and were capable of coming up with some kick-ass ideas which work (Example: double-file restarts). Maybe I'm having a Pollyanna moment but I just don't see where this Meyer guy is blasting the NFC. I'm seeing a shot across NA__AR's rather considerable bow.

I think it began as a PR stunt but you folks on the NFC has gotten the ultimate "Gotcha. You folks took something and made the unworkable actually work. I don't think that was ever in NA__AR grand plan.

Good on ya. Thanks and keep up the good work.

FYI, I've fired off a blast to Frontstretch and Meyer outlining our discussion and your feelings. I've advised that the article wasn't clear and future comments as to the NFC should be made with what the NFC has accomplished in mind.

[Robertdjr]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Once more we read it differently. I read it as a slam toward NA__AR in that they created the NFC strictly as a feel-good, PR project. What they got (Law of Unintended Consequences applies) was an actual body of people who cared and were capable of coming up with some kick-ass ideas which work (Example: double-file restarts). Maybe I'm having a Pollyanna moment but I just don't see where this Meyer guy is blasting the NFC. I'm seeing a shot across NA__AR's rather considerable bow.

I think it began as a PR stunt but you folks on the NFC has gotten the ultimate "Gotcha. You folks took something and made the unworkable actually work. I don't think that was ever in NA__AR grand plan.

Good on ya. Thanks and keep up the good work.

FYI, I've fired off a blast to Frontstretch and Meyer outlining our discussion and your feelings. I've advised that the article wasn't clear and future comments as to the NFC should be made with what the NFC has accomplished in mind.

Now that's a way of looking at it I hadn't considered. I can certainly see it that way. Thanks for your insight. I think the problem is too many of us have become so cynical when it comes to anything related to today's NASCAR, that we sometimes get lost in what and who we are cynical about. That could be the case with me and this article. That's not really our fault though, it lays at the feet of Brian France and the things he's done since he took over. So if I took Mr Meyer that way and I'm wrong, I'll certainly acknowledge it. And I'd be quite interested to see if he responds to you.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Robertdjr

Now that's a way of looking at it I hadn't considered. I can certainly see it that way. Thanks for your insight. I think the problem is too many of us have become so cynical when it comes to anything related to today's NASCAR, that we sometimes get lost in what and who we are cynical about. That could be the case with me and this article. That's not really our fault though, it lays at the feet of Brian France and the things he's done since he took over. So if I took Mr Meyer that way and I'm wrong, I'll certainly acknowledge it. And I'd be quite interested to see if he responds to you.

Yes, cynicism definitely IS a problem,. I guess it takes some like me who is positive, upbeat and optimistic about this new version of NA__AR to put a righteous spin on things, right?

To our Boy Lollipop's defense, don't blame everything wrong with NA__AR on him. His father shares a whole lot of the blame. Brian just took some of Bill Jr.'s most wrong-headed ideas to the next level.

Brian just proves the old saw, "Like father, like son."

While I have corresponded one or two times of the Frontstretch staff I have never traded ideas with Meyer. I'm not holding my breath. However, I could be wrong, but I've found that a lot of these bloggers have egos the size of Texas and they don't suffer criticism too well.

[Robertdjr]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I guess it takes some like me who is positive, upbeat and optimistic about this new version of NA__AR to put a righteous spin on things, right?

No doubt about it, my friend. We can always count on you.

[nascaraddict]

If NA_CAR gave a darn about the fans; there would'nt be a CoT, and there would be so many cookie cutter tracks.