[wingkey1]

There’s got to be a more alluring title for this thread, but the mind is weak this morning. Apology in advance..

I sit here with a degree of hesitancy as I consider whether this is of interest beyond my own and whether to offer it as reference, consideration, and/or possibly have value to others.

I guess it is the information within the document available via the web pointer that follows, albeit somewhat dated and most certainly open to question and criticism, that I find stimulating as we (there, I’ve included the mouse) continue to participate and watch motorsports competition at the premier levels. Forget that – at all levels. Even when we go to the local tracks, (the mouse is often in the shirt pocket), the feeling is that if this is not at some level being observed – the real race was missed.

It is very important to note that much in the document can be far removed from what can be applied to platforms performing on dirt, road course, as well as those of the open wheel premier classes (F1, Indycar).

When we (there’s the mouse again) choose to watch for instance a Sprint event, the event is often taped so it can be “slow-motioned” later to look closely at chassis movement, line selection, etc. of the best and the worst. It is predominantly much more telling, if one knows what to look and listen for, than the impact of things like the “35”, caution application, lucky Rover, etc., etc. It is the sweet science, the real appreciation for what is actually going on, divorced from all of the off track, dare I say (don’t want to incriminate the mouse), peripheral crap.

Can’t even begin to reasonably explain how “playing in” the engine, weather, the pilot, and more must be integrated with chassis performance/set-up to attain a winning combination. Can’t even.

Enjoy what you’d watch. Or is it watch what you enjoy? Work to see more. The real appreciation and enjoyment is in there.

Now perhaps the most important thing to record/remember here: “But what do we know”.

http://members.shaw.ca/sisiracing/chassis_setup_guide.htm

[OregonSHRFan]

Very interesting stuff. Unfortunately, with the COT, some of it doesn't apply to todays Cup cars. Its still amazing to me how much a seemingly minor adjustment can make a monumental difference in how a car handles. Your explanations of all these variables and how they interact is in plan enough language to understand but not too overly simplified. Thanks!

[moon]

A lot of those opinions are debatable and for sure those setups are no longer used in the current COT cars, many teams no longer even carry front anti-roll bars that small on their transporters.

It's all about bump stop shock packers and splitter relationship to the track surface.

That's why all the emphasis on tires these days, NASCAR has allowed the teams to get away from using the coil springs to help with the loads and put it all on the tire, another reason for my suggestion in the COT thread.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by moon

A lot of those opinions are debatable and for sure those setups are no longer used in the current COT cars, many teams no longer even carry front anti-roll bars that small on their transporters.

It's all about bump stop shock packers and splitter relationship to the track surface.

That's why all the emphasis on tires these days, NASCAR has allowed the teams to get away from using the coil springs to help with the loads and put it all on the tire, another reason for my suggestion in the COT thread.

Excellent. Good stuff. Now this is some real racing stuff!!

And since ya brought up sway bars --- It's no secret the 48 likes to "throttle drive". They seem to have found a way to consistently "evenly and firmly" plant the front end. If watched closely, this can be seen at many venues. I've often felt there had to be a sway bar choice or perhaps placement (in combination with other adjustments and factors for sure) that might help their planting of the front end. Any thoughts?

[OregonSHRFan]

The ability to "plant the front end" definitely is apparent and apparent when a car can't. Watching how hard a driver can put his car into a corner, you can tell how confident they are in the front end of the car.

[moon]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Excellent. Good stuff. Now this is some real racing stuff!!

And since ya brought up sway bars --- It's no secret the 48 likes to "throttle drive". They seem to have found a way to consistently "evenly and firmly" plant the front end. If watched closely, this can be seen at many venues. I've often felt there had to be a sway bar choice or perhaps placement (in combination with other adjustments and factors for sure) that might help their planting of the front end. Any thoughts?

A few have figured out how to make the "jacking forces" work to plant the left side and keep it there with monster front sway bars.

They are making the upper control arm geometry of the RS push down on the LS.

That's why when you see a guy "lose the front" it usually ends up being big, the wall or whoever is on the outside takes a hit.

[nascaraddict]

Now we're gettting technical. I'm liking this.

[Racer Duck]

I've only gotten thru the caster and camber and briefly scanned the "bias" parts .. still more to read/evaluate/understand .. the only criticism I see with the article (so far) is the instant jump into "the vernacular" .. the neophyte will be lost with "push", "loose", "wedge", "cross weight", etc. And REALLY lost when he starts talking "roll center couple"!!! Most local track racers haven't a clue what RC Couple is .. and not sure they'd care even if they did know 'cause it's not an easy concept to "visualize." Better is the list of "what to do when" for those folk (which he did include.)

And, I slightly disagree about the info being "old" .. it may not be leading edge for Cup (and the COT), but there's a bunch of local racers to whom this info is "right now". The physics are still the same that influence the COT into it's gyrations even though the mechanics involved are (slightly) different and introduce new "boundaries" within which they (the COT tuners) must operate.

Still, it's a worthwhile read. Kudos to wing for finding it and posting it.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

And, I slightly disagree about the info being "old" .. it may not be leading edge for Cup (and the COT), but there's a bunch of local racers to whom this info is "right now". The physics are still the same that influence the COT into it's gyrations even though the mechanics involved are (slightly) different and introduce new "boundaries" within which they (the COT tuners) must operate.

I not so sure about the "must operate" part but that was some mighty nice and pretty wording you was using there.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by moon

I not so sure about the "must operate" part but that was some mighty nice and pretty wording you was using there.

Thanks moon. I try to keep everyone entertained and on their toes at the same time .. but sometimes cow patties and ballet dancers just don't get along very well.

The "must operate" part I'm talking about are the physical boundaries, not the rules boundaries. Try as they might, I don't think anyone has yet figured how to violate the laws of gravity and momentum such that they can be independent of bumps and centrifugal force on a race track. When that happens, then racing will have evolved way beyond our wildest imaginations.

[wingkey1]

Now the real kicker, if not already noticed - this was all written/created for a video game.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Now the real kicker, if not already noticed - this was all written/created for a video game.

in 2002!

Yeah, I saw that.

[OregonSHRFan]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Now the real kicker, if not already noticed - this was all written/created for a video game.

Yeah I caught that right off the bat by the title.... NASCAR 2002. As a side note, who was on the cover of that release?

I think all the technical stuff is amazing, especially for someone like me who has a frogs hair chance of ever getting close enough to a race car to actually learn some of this stuff first hand.

[nascaraddict]

The slide rules are in full use here.

[moon]

Originally Posted by OregonSHRFan

Yeah I caught that right off the bat by the title.... NASCAR 2002. As a side note, who was on the cover of that release?

I think all the technical stuff is amazing, especially for someone like me who has a frogs hair chance of ever getting close enough to a race car to actually learn some of this stuff first hand.

I wouldn't bet on that as long as I'm living.