[bob101]

According to Rousch and Childress they have double the man hours in hanging the body alone in the new CoT due to the tightness of the templates (IE the claw) in the front.

[nascaraddict]

Originally Posted by bob101

According to Rousch and Childress they have double the man hours in hanging the body alone in the new CoT due to the tightness of the templates (IE the claw) in the front.

You mean "the tire cutter"?

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by nascaraddict

You mean "the tire cutter"?

no, "the claw" is the name affecionately applied to the new template used to check the hood and fender shapes on the COT.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by bob101

According to Rousch and Childress they have double the man hours in hanging the body alone in the new CoT due to the tightness of the templates (IE the claw) in the front.

I can see that as being true .. but I can't see that causing a major portion of what they claim the car is now costing. there's usually only a couple folks whose job it is to hang bodies .. and once they have the process down it becomes pretty automatic. I once watched a guy take a piece of flat sheetmetal and, using an English Wheel and a couple hand tools, make a fender for a BGN car .. only took him about 45 mins .. and a lot of that was making sure it fit the template. My point is that the labor involved, even working with more and closer tolerances, doesn't amount to much in the overall scheme of things. And I cannot imagine they would have unskilled labor doing the hanging.

[bob101]

I agree in the grand scheme it's not a lot. However part of the COT was to save money. I just don't see it. The components cost the same. Doing a chassis is still the same. Now doing the body cost 2x as much in labor. Where's the savings? Teams are still building separate cars for different tracks etc....

I've never seen guys do much english wheel and planishing hammer work in person. Thankfully in the drag race world you start off with steel rear quarters and a roof (novel concept I know) and normally go to glass front ends (which would never work in a contact sport).

I did hear Greg Biffle say that Ford was now providing steel stampings of the roof/rear post to save them some time since they were all the same now.

Another money eater I've heard is that even if your car isn't involved in a wreck now to turn it around sometimes requires taking off the front body work and starting over to fit the template again which sounds like a pain. Knause was saying that some times it still fits and they can turn a car around pretty quick. I want to say he said about 75% of the time it no longer fits after the race even without contact. So I'm not sure that's a money saver if you have to redo the front of the cars each week in the normal turnaround.

[moon]

Has anyone mentioned the labor costs involved in having to take every new build and rebuild to the NASCAR run Tech center to get it "certified" and the RFID tags installed?

Building a race car and racing it has skyrocketed in costs, the blame for that can be laid directly on the sanctioning body. (my opinion)

Back when the sport was growing they had inspectors who knew how to read tape measures and could inspect a car on jack stands in the Cup garage. Don't tell me they can't find competent people who can still do that. I will believe however that they do not want those people around anymore to question their short comings. (my opinion)

Over policing the competitors with these new standards that have arisen all because of failures to stop the "unfair" advantages by skilled mechanics by unskilled inspectors has led to this generic Cup car that has no identity other than being ugly and all but unraceable. (my opinion).

[boplenty]

"Ugly and all but unraceable". Ya gotta love that! It's all about money. They should just change the name to National Association for Stock Chevy Auto Racing and let Hendrick Motor Sports swim in their own pool.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by moon

Has anyone mentioned the labor costs involved in having to take every new build and rebuild to the NASCAR run Tech center to get it "certified" and the RFID tags installed?

Building a race car and racing it has skyrocketed in costs, the blame for that can be laid directly on the sanctioning body. (my opinion)

Back when the sport was growing they had inspectors who knew how to read tape measures and could inspect a car on jack stands in the Cup garage. Don't tell me they can't find competent people who can still do that. I will believe however that they do not want those people around anymore to question their short comings. (my opinion)

Over policing the competitors with these new standards that have arisen all because of failures to stop the "unfair" advantages by skilled mechanics by unskilled inspectors has led to this generic Cup car that has no identity other than being ugly and all but unraceable. (my opinion).

For what it may be worth, Moon, your opinions and mine differ so little that it doesn't bear mentioning. Especially correct is your statement about blame is to be laid on the sanctioning body.

I read an article this morning, written by one of the NA__AR "Parrot press Club," which stated that when NA__AR was on the upswing it was fashionable to say how great everything was. Now that they've become popular, all of us who criticize NA__AR are doing so only because it has now become trendy to prophesize gloom and doom and remark about the current downward spiral. Liz Clarke, the writer, even went so far as to state:
NASCAR's TV ratings may be continuing their slide, and race-day attendance is down. But from the vantage point of stock-car racing's core fans, who congregate en masse twice each year at the sport's biggest, most hair-raising speedway here in northern Alabama, there's nothing wrong with the sport.

(kinda like putting a smiley face button on a cow patty, isn't it?)

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

I count myself as one of "Stock car racing's core fans," (as I bet you do also) and 'Ol Liz is blowing smoke where the sun don't shine with her assessment! If NA__AR would truly get back to basics (your statement about being able to read a tape measure is germane) and quit screwing up, things just "might" turn around a little bit.

Rant #503. #504 is primed and ready.

[boplenty]

And the reason we should be paying attention to Liz Clark is what?

[nascaraddict]

I have to say that the plate racing is better since the put in the two wide te-starts. But the CoT platform is a pice of crap.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by boplenty

And the reason we should be paying attention to Liz Clark is what?

My point exactly.

The ironic thing is that there are those who agree 100% with what she states. They are probably the very same who think NA__AR actually put on an actual "race" yesterday, too.

[Racer Duck]

didn't get to see the race, except for the first 10 or so laps. but from what my son told me it was by far the most boring race of the season (now that's saying something since California had two shots at that title and he's a devout fan of "racing" - a chip off the ole Duck as it were. )

he also said that another problem was that NASCAR spoke the words "don't do..." and it was talked about by the announcers, but they failed to punish those who did. (I think it was hooking up nose to tail in the corners that shouldn't be done.) looks like no matter what the media thinks, NASCAR is rapidly loosing all credibility with fans who actually pay attention to the "racing" .. or lack of.... no one believes NASCAR will do anything as long as one of the "golden children" are involved in the rule breaking. and since they are, everyone else is also. what we call the snowball effect.

it's not the Cot that's the problem .. or even the stupid rules. even with the CoT AND the stupid rules, there can be good racing. just go to any local track and look at the different types of cars they have competing and some of the silly rules they race with...

it's not the car and it's not the rules - it's that the rules have to be enforced evenly. the last two words are the critical part of that statement. and they are the part that NASCAR is failing so miserably at.

RIP racing under the NASCAR banner. We will miss you more than you know.

[Bob Tanner]

This is off-topic, Charlie (Not a whole lot left to say about the new race car, is there?) but you missed Dale Jarrett's comment, which he made exactly once, then the booth went quiet. He never brought the topic up again during the entire coverage.

It must have been 50-60 laps into the "racertainment event," and they had been running parade style for about half the "race" so far. Dale refered to the 1969 PDA boycott of Talladega and the "Thou Shalt Not Push Thru the Turns" Rule which got laid on them pre-race. He then went on to spectulate that the drivers were staging their own "Boycott" by intentionally running nose-to-tail for laps on end, as a way to protest NA__AR instructing them how to drive the new race car at Talladega. (I did manage to work in the new car!!??)

My bet is Dale, along with Harvick (radio comms:"I need a place for my iPod"), Smoke (radio comms:"Could you get me some No-Doz?"), Newman ("...a product of this racing and what NASCAR has put us into with this box and these restrictor plates with these types of cars. You know, with the yellow line, no bump-drafting, no passing. Drivers used to be able to respet each other and race around each other. Richard Petty, David Pearson and Bobby Allison and all those guys have always done that. I guess they don't think much of us anymore."), Hamlin ("Let us race." They gave us a car to race, now let the drivers handle it ... Pushing each other in the corners and all the way around, that is the safest driving you can possibly do because that's eight tires. The thing is, you'll see when the Big One happens, it will be someone just hitting someone down the straightaways because they were put in a box that said that was how they had to race."), Vickers (It was probably the most yawning that I've done in a superspeedway race." Maybe that's what they want, I'm not sure") are going to be contacted by NA__AR this week and reminded of their position in the big scheme of things.

[kkfan91]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

This is off-topic, Charlie (Not a whole lot left to say about the new race car, is there?) but you missed Dale Jarrett's comment, which he made exactly once, then the booth went quiet. He never brought the topic up again during the entire coverage.

It must have been 50-60 laps into the "racertainment event," and they had been running parade style for about half the "race" so far. Dale refered to the 1969 PDA boycott of Talladega and the "Thou Shalt Not Push Thru the Turns" Rule which got laid on them pre-race. He then went on to spectulate that the drivers were staging their own "Boycott" by intentionally running nose-to-tail for laps on end, as a way to protest NA__AR instructing them how to drive the new race car at Talladega. (I did manage to work in the new car!!??)

My bet is Dale, along with Harvick (radio comms:"I need a place for my iPod"), Smoke (radio comms:"Could you get me some No-Doz?"), Newman ("...a product of this racing and what NASCAR has put us into with this box and these restrictor plates with these types of cars. You know, with the yellow line, no bump-drafting, no passing. Drivers used to be able to respet each other and race around each other. Richard Petty, David Pearson and Bobby Allison and all those guys have always done that. I guess they don't think much of us anymore."), Hamlin ("Let us race." They gave us a car to race, now let the drivers handle it ... Pushing each other in the corners and all the way around, that is the safest driving you can possibly do because that's eight tires. The thing is, you'll see when the Big One happens, it will be someone just hitting someone down the straightaways because they were put in a box that said that was how they had to race."), Vickers (It was probably the most yawning that I've done in a superspeedway race." Maybe that's what they want, I'm not sure") are going to be contacted by NA__AR this week and reminded of their position in the big scheme of things.

This might just be a rumor I heard but I heard NASCAR called for ABC to fire the booth reporters for critism

[Robertdjr]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

This is off-topic, Charlie (Not a whole lot left to say about the new race car, is there?) but you missed Dale Jarrett's comment, which he made exactly once, then the booth went quiet. He never brought the topic up again during the entire coverage.

Ramsey Poston, NASCAR's Managing Director of Corporate Communications, took a shot at both ABC and DJ in NASCAR's official statement on Talladega yesterday...

The ABC broadcasters certainly weren't happy with the race and they felt compelled to remind viewers of that virtually every lap. They seemed to blame NASCAR's enforcement of the rule prohibiting bump-drafting in the corners for every moment they didn't like. Along the way ABC missed a lot of very good racing. That's not to say that every lap was a barn-burner, but there was some seriously intense racing as well. Interestingly, a caller on Sirius NASCAR Satellite Radio this morning said that he first watched the race on ABC then listened to the MRN rebroadcast and said, "It was like two different races," referring to the excitement and action portrayed on the radio broadcast.

A number of myths quickly sprouted out of this race; so let's address them:

Was there a conspiracy among the drivers not to race as suggested by Dale Jarrett on ABC?

• No. As Jeff Burton said on Sirius today, "I think that's complete nonsense..."

You can read the entire statement here:

NASCAR Says - Talladega: A Second Opinion

Originally Posted by kkfan91

This might just be a rumor I heard but I heard NASCAR called for ABC to fire the booth reporters for critism

I read that too, but I've yet to find a credible source to back it up.