[Racer Duck]

WOW! What a great thread.

Bob T, you're right on with the "history" .. when NASCAR agreed to "even the playing field", they took innovation away from the teams/manufacturers and that was the end of what we oldsters think of as good racing. Yet, we still have racing .. just different than it was. And brand identities died at that point for the entertainment value of the generic car and t-shirt sales.

kkfan, the '03 car is the one we (affectionately) call the "twisted sister". It was (and still is 'cause it's pretty much what the NWS is running) a mishmash of non standard body angles which created weird aerodynamic characteristics, one of which resulted in many crashes when a trailing car got too close to the rear of the car in front. Thus, for that fact alone, the racing isn't the same, tho the single file aspect created by that "feature" has been replaced by another, not quite so dangerous, but still crash inducing, "feature": the "side pull" on the rear of the car when one car moves next to another.

MikeRaceDayTek, thanks for clearing up the "greenhouse" for the uninitiated. I'm also curious (since I haven't seen it defined anywhere - and don't have access to a current rule book ) what happened with the front and rear suspension design from the twisted sister to the COT? To me that would have more impact on the handling of the car than the boxy body. I also agree that splitter tuning is a mostly black art in NASCAR that bears attention from the teams. I believe, as you do, that the most significant gains in stabilizing the COT and providing significant cornering and straightaway speed lies in that single area.

Well said, Bob101.

Originally Posted by bob101

The racing "is" different. Only you can decide if it's better/same/worse.

I too have wondered why there seems to be a "wall" that prohibits significant lead distances.

Moon, I hadn't thought about the "mikey affect" causing the higher top, but it makes sense. He's about the only driver the pit reporters have to "look up" to. And to answer your question why NASCAR won't use the best technical minds in the sport to design a new car I'll just use a Mike Helton quote from last year when asked another question about the "technical" aspects of NASCAR racing - "We ain't that smart."

[kkfan91]

well i just picked a random year to be honest

[Bette]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

WOW! What a great thread.

yeah, it is isnt it? And just think it was started by some person that knows nothing about racing.

[kkfan91]

Originally Posted by Bette

yeah, it is isnt it? And just think it was started by some person that knows nothing about racing.

see your an expert now so my car is loose going into the corner do i want to add wedge or make an air pressure adjustment or lower the track bar

[Bette]

Originally Posted by kkfan91

see your an expert now so my car is loose going into the corner do i want to add wedge or make an air pressure adjustment or lower the track bar

Get a different driver

[nascaraddict]

The C.o.T. took the real racing out of the sport. Goodyear then could'nt come up with a decent tire if their life depended on it. Added to that, all the cookiecuttter tracks that gives humdrum racing.

It's enough to make a grown man cry.

[boplenty]

The CoT still looks weird, funny whatever. When I first saw real sprint cars on TV (World of Outlaws type cars) I thought they were the most ridiculous looking things I ever saw and didn't pay any attention to them. I wonder how many times a non-NASCAR fan or someone unfamiliar with the sport might be channel surfing on TV, come across a Cup race and wonder "What the heck kind of car is that?" and keep changing channels.

The days are gone and will never come back but it sure was fun when you could recognize a particular manufacturer on the track.

'DEGA....TIME FOR A SHAKE-UP IN THE "CHASE"!

[Bette]

Originally Posted by boplenty

The CoT still looks weird, funny whatever. When I first saw real sprint cars on TV (World of Outlaws type cars) I thought they were the most ridiculous looking things I ever saw and didn't pay any attention to them. I wonder how many times a non-NASCAR fan or someone unfamiliar with the sport might be channel surfing on TV, come across a Cup race and wonder "What the heck kind of car is that?" and keep changing channels.

The days are gone and will never come back but it sure was fun when you could recognize a particular manufacturer on the track.

'DEGA....TIME FOR A SHAKE-UP IN THE "CHASE"!

I am not a racing fan but that would be one of the fun parts for me. Its kind of like when we go to tractor pulls and my husband looks for the Case tractors to win.

[boplenty]

Bette, what kind of fun would it be if all the tractors were identical?

[nascaraddict]

I was thinking about it recently. And if the CoT was as big and bad was NA_CAR makes it out to be, why has'nt been rolled out to the lower tiered series by now.

But then I saw the articles on the Nationwide post explaining it. But also, the flipping cost of it is prohibitive.

[Racer Duck]

Actually, the cost of building the car isn't where the bucks are being spent, it's in trying to "make a brick fly"!

But parts whose cost have risen the most are:

• the Kevlar splitter (didn't have one on the twisted sister)
• "the wing" (replaced a flat piece of Lexan)
• plus I doubt the manufacturers have kept the cost of the front bumper cover the same since it has a much more complicated configuration than the previous version.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Actually, the cost of building the car isn't where the bucks are being spent, it's in trying to "make a brick fly"!

But parts whose cost have risen the most are:

• the Kevlar splitter (didn't have one on the twisted sister)
• "the wing" (replaced a flat piece of Lexan)
• plus I doubt the manufacturers have kept the cost of the front bumper cover the same since it has a much more complicated configuration than the previous version.

I guess I should qualify the above with this: there is a normal acceleration of costs associated with improvements in technologies and design of drive train and suspension parts that will, naturally, increase the cost from year to year, thus the items identified are those outside the bounds of this "normal acceleration".

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

WOW! What a great thread.

Bob T, you're right on with the "history" .. when NASCAR agreed to "even the playing field", they took innovation away from the teams/manufacturers and that was the end of what we oldsters think of as good racing.
================================================== ==
. And to answer your question why NASCAR won't use the best technical minds in the sport to design a new car I'll just use a Mike Helton quote from last year when asked another question about the "technical" aspects of NASCAR racing - "We ain't that smart."

Ducky, may I combine your two statements (above) and form a question from them?
Why in the name of everything that's holy is NA__AR even in the race car design business? By doing so, all it seems they do is mimic our Imperial Federal Government by sticking its oversized nose in places it has no real business being in and making every problem it thinks it sees even bigger, or creating even more disastrous problems, if by no other way than through the Rule of Unintended Consequences.

I believe, to the bottom of my rather flat feet, that NA__AR belongs strictly in the race series administration business and NOT in the race car design business.

Chalk this up as #501 times I've made this complaint, with #502 on the rails and ready to be fired.

[Bette]

Originally Posted by boplenty

Bette, what kind of fun would it be if all the tractors were identical?

Exactly, thats why I identify with your remark about it taking some of the fun out of the races.

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Ducky, may I combine your two statements (above) and form a question from them?
Why in the name of everything that's holy is NA__AR even in the race car design business? By doing so, all it seems they do is mimic our Imperial Federal Government by sticking its oversized nose in places it has no real business being in and making every problem it thinks it see even bigger, or creating even more disastrous problems, if by no other way that through the Rule of Unintended Consequences.

I believe, to the bottom of my rather flat feet, that NA__AR belongs strictly in the race series administration business and NOT in the race car design business.

Chalk this up as #501 times I've made this complaint, with #502 on the rails and ready to be fired.

Crap, I find myself on Bob's side here. Even with my limited knowledge of the sport, I cant see any reason for Nascar to be in the design business. The Rule of Unintended Consequences is a big reason why not.

[nascaraddict]

I think that at the end of the day, the only folks that are really happy with "the Wing Thing" is Brian France, and Rick Hendrick.