[Bette]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

Bette, what am I going to do with you?

Crabtree is not saying he is better than say Randy Moss...

Crabtree, having proven himself in college, is saying that he is better than the 7th pick of the draft (which in college and potential wise he is) and thus should command more money than Oakland gave their first round draft choice...

All rookie contracts are negotiated on potential, on their college career, and on the measurements they posted in the combine etc...

What do you not follow in that logic?

Oh, I follow the logic alright.
But what happens if he sits out the season?

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Bette

Oh, I follow the logic alright.
But what happens if he sits out the season?

He would be an idiot of course...or the best darn player in the CFL...total toss up...and hey, there is the UFL too...

Both sides are stupid...what you do is take out a major insurance policy on him against possible injury... establish a negotiation floor for the contract, for which both sides will not go under in case that Crabtree does not live up to potential right away...and hammer out a deal while he is in camp...

[Bette]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

He would be an idiot of course...or the best darn player in the CFL...total toss up...and hey, there is the UFL too...

Both sides are stupid...what you do is take out a major insurance policy on him against possible injury... establish a negotiation floor for the contract, for which both sides will not go under in case that Crabtree does not live up to potential right away...and hammer out a deal while he is in camp...

But the 49ers are out their pick, arent they?
I dont know, sounds sort of like a form of blackmail to me.
And good old American greed, which is stronger than your free market theories any day.
I detest greed in any form. It corrupts and taints the whole sport.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Bette

But the 49ers are out their pick, arent they?
I dont know, sounds sort of like a form of blackmail to me.
And good old American greed, which is stronger than your free market theories any day.
I detest greed in any form. It corrupts and taints the whole sport.

You and I are as different as night and day...what you call greed, I call a "free market"...

The 49ers are aware of the risk in taking someone and not meeting their negotiated demands...it's all part of a free market economy...

There is no slavery in sports...at least not as there once was, when there was no such thing as free agency, etc...

The 49ers do not have to pay Crabtree...which I am sure they will...the 49ers also do not have to hike prices to the fans...the fans do not have to support rising prices of tickets...it's a "Free Economy"...Greed may be found perhaps in a monopoly of sort, where there is no freedom of choice...greed can only exist in this case if fans support it...once they do, and they buy the ticket, and the 49ers pay Crabtree...how does greed exist?...We are all agents unto ourselves that are free to make a choice...Thus why is Crabtree greedy for doing what the fans allow him and empower him and the 49ers to do???

[Bette]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

You and I are as different as night and day...what you call greed, I call a "free market"...

The 49ers are aware of the risk in taking someone and not meeting their negotiated demands...it's all part of a free market economy...

There is no slavery in sports...at least not as there once was, when there was no such thing as free agency, etc...

The 49ers do not have to pay Crabtree...which I am sure they will...the 49ers also do not have to hike prices to the fans...the fans do not have to support rising prices of tickets...it's a "Free Economy"...Greed may be found perhaps in a monopoly of sort, where there is no freedom of choice...greed can only exist in this case if fans support it...once they do, and they buy the ticket, and the 49ers pay Crabtree...how does greed exist?...We are all agents unto ourselves that are free to make a choice...Thus why is Crabtree greedy for doing what the fans allow him and empower him and the 49ers to do???

Would you be so big on "free market" if your background wasnt what it was?
The system needs an overhaul. Its out of control. Free market and greed have bankrupted our country. Its going to bankrupt the NFL too.
There is a monopoly of sorts. Only wealthy teams can pay the kind of bucks some of these guys want. Only wealthy fans can pay the prices. Is it fair that I can no longer afford to pay the price for the NFL Ticket and cant watch the team I love? Salaries go up and everything else goes up. Joe Average Fan pays the price as usual.
A rookie wage system that bases salary on draft position still insures players out of school are paid for their potential, does it not?
This hurts everyone Goth. How many of those high priced dudes dont meet up with expectations. They miss a lot of valuable training time, they get hurt by it, the team is hurt, the fans hurt, etc. All in the name of free market??? Everyone loses except the player's agent.
We have so much second rate football. This contributes to it. Get those players in there and let them do what they were meant to do. Contribute to the team.
I will not kneel at the altar of free trade if the result is this spiraling out of control mess.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Would you be so big on "free market" if your background wasnt what it was?

not relevant but I will answer.

Yes, I would be the same. From any point of view. Social-economical, Religious, Political, and Cultural...

On all counts I believe in freedom of choice, free will, free agency...whatever you wish to call it...

I do not believe in someone else telling you what is and isn't good for you (within the limits of the law of course)...as such I do not believe in Caps, in Unions, in Political Correctness etc, etc, etc

The system needs an overhaul. Its out of control. Free market and greed have bankrupted our country.

Nonsense...people are free to make good and bad choices.
People have made bad choices, (owners of teams, players, mortgage lenders, mortgage owners etc, etc) the Law of Consequence says that at some point you have to pay the piper for bad choice...

I do not believe in saving people from their poor judgment...

And I certainly do not believe the government or a ruling sports body should save people from poor judgment.

Its going to bankrupt the NFL too.

I am okay with that.

With any Freedom there is Responsibility and Consequence.

I rather the NFL go belly up, then prevent the Freedom of choice and action.

There is a monopoly of sorts.

LOL. Monopolies do not go belly up...think about it.

Only wealthy teams can pay the kind of bucks some of these guys want.

Not true. Wealthy teams win ... so, small market teams would always control the draft, and thus the overall salary structure of draft pick

Only wealthy fans can pay the prices.

I am okay with that.

It' a business not a charity, and certainly not a right of the American people to be able to go to a game.

I go to games when someone gives me tickets...occassionally I go to cheap Magic games I can afford...

The NFL can charge $500 a seat, and if they can get it, more power to them. I will cheer them on...if people are dumb enough to pay it...good for them!!!

Is it fair that I can no longer afford to pay the price for the NFL Ticket and cant watch the team I love?

YES. TOTALLY FAIR!...you have the right to spend your money how you want to...if you wanted to, you could buy a ticket...it may cost you not getting something else...not my problem...not the NFL's problem...yo9u still have the freedom to do it.

Salaries go up and everything else goes up. Joe Average Fan pays the price as usual.

SO? That only means Joe average puts up with it...and look at the Packers long list for season tickets...its says the Average Joe will keep doing it...

A rookie wage system that bases salary on draft position still insures players out of school are paid for their potential, does it not?

Bette, why does there have to be a cap in AMERICA?...Socialism does not work...never has...many of tried, many have failed...look at Russia and China suddenly shaking off years of socialism to embrace capitalism...why? Because their sysytem failed miserably.

This hurts everyone Goth.

No Bette, restriction of freedom is what would hurt everyone. No one needs to go to a football game...everyone though is entitled to be free.

How many of those high priced dudes dont meet up with expectations.

Doesn't matter. No one is forced to pay them.

They miss a lot of valuable training time, they get hurt by it, the team is hurt, the fans hurt, etc. All in the name of free market??? Everyone loses except the player's agent.

SO???? Pretty much that is life...why play God and try to equalize everyone to one point of view???

We have so much second rate football.

WE have exactly what the market allows...nothing more, nothing less...

This contributes to it. Get those players in there and let them do what they were meant to do. Contribute to the team.

Bette, you can never sell me on a socialist view where free will / free market is taken away...

Like I said above, I rather the NFL go belly up...and anything else along with it...

I will not kneel at the altar of free trade if the result is this spiraling out of control mess.

Totally your choice...now, don't come crying to me about it...I am in love with the concept of Freedom in this country...as such you are free to picket the NFL, owners etc..etc...etc...and I am equally free to say, "Hey Crabtree, grab what you can, while you can"...sorry Bette, I don't have a socialist bone in my body...but hey, if it works for you, "this socialist concept to NFL salaries," more power to ya...

[Bette]

Holy Cow Batman! I dont want to impose socialism or take away
free will.

All I want are some adjustments to the rookie wage system.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Bette

Holy Cow Batman! I dont want to impose socialism or take away
free will.

All I want are some adjustments to the rookie wage system.

One comes with the others...LOL...

Having said that, I am okay if the owners collectively say, hey on a case by bases we are not willing to pay rookies more than our current starters etc...

but I am against a collective rule that tries to save owners from their own stupidity...I firmly believe you can't save people from their own stupidity...and economically things need to take their course...

[Bette]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

One comes with the others...LOL...

Having said that, I am okay if the owners collectively say, hey on a case by bases we are not willing to pay rookies more than our current starters etc...

but I am against a collective rule that tries to save owners from their own stupidity...I firmly believe you can't save people from their own stupidity...and economically things need to take their course...

I wasnt talking about an NFL rule. The owners would have to be in on it. That just might happen next year.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Bette

I wasnt talking about an NFL rule. The owners would have to be in on it. That just might happen next year.

OKay...If I was an NFL owner, I wouldn't want to pay squat...I would trade down every year for multiple picks at a lower pay range... ...or trade picks for a proven vet...but that is me...

I like Crabtree...but honestly the draft was heavy on good WR...and I would have loved to have traded the 10th pick for a lower first round pick and say a 3rd round pick...someone else would have the headache...I would be paying a rookie at about a 25th pick salary...and I would be looking for a solid 3rd rounder for my struggling team

[Reinstate49erGenius]

J Russell did the same thing. Let's not be down on Crabtree. I can't see why we can't put in he has to be like NFC Leader or appear in the Pro Bowl and get extra money for it. I feel we're lowballing him.