[Phils20]

Nice read. I agree with his take, but I'm a bit biased, as my user name might tell you!

I especially think he's spot on with not viewing athletes as hero's.

Give me your take on things, I'd love to have some talk about it that doesn't just rip A-Rod in particular.

Mike Schmidt says he would accept Alex Rodriguez as Hall of Famer - ESPN

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Phils20

Nice read. I agree with his take, but I'm a bit biased, as my user name might tell you!

I especially think he's spot on with not viewing athletes as hero's.

Give me your take on things, I'd love to have some talk about it that doesn't just rip A-Rod in particular.

Mike Schmidt says he would accept Alex Rodriguez as Hall of Famer - ESPN

I agree that there are better hero's in the world besides athlete' but lets face it, who does the 8 year old little leaguer idolize ??? He can watch his hero on TV day after day all summer long. The war hero's are faceless and nameless (and I don't say that in a derogatory manner). As far as allowing any of the 'roid users into the HOF ... it's an era we are going through and like it or not records have been and will be set by those on drugs that are considered illegal. Miss America can lose her crown, gold medals can be taken back but we can't put a simpel asterisk next to a name. Something very wrong there. Put them in since we really will never know if the record achieved would have been achieved without drugs. A hundred years from now A-Rod will be a forgotten name ... with no asterisk.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I agree that there are better hero's in the world besides athlete' but lets face it, who does the 8 year old little leaguer idolize ??? He can watch his hero on TV day after day all summer long. The war hero's are faceless and nameless (and I don't say that in a derogatory manner). As far as allowing any of the 'roid users into the HOF ... it's an era we are going through and like it or not records have been and will be set by those on drugs that are considered illegal. Miss America can lose her crown, gold medals can be taken back but we can't put a simpel asterisk next to a name. Something very wrong there. Put them in since we really will never know if the record achieved would have been achieved without drugs. A hundred years from now A-Rod will be a forgotten name ... with no asterisk.

Not so easy. Say A-Rod faced Clemens...how does A-Rod now have an edge on Clemens?...

How do you separate the era? How do you say, Gaylord "spitball thrower" is a HOF and A-Rod isn't?

[Phils20]

Very true.

I think the cat is just out of the bag, and we are going to have to let the players in based on numbers, and leave it at that.

Mike, and a lot of other 70-80's Phils, were taking amphetamines, and have admitted it.

Should we take Mike's numbers away, or Pete Rose, or other greats of that era?

I hate the MLB was so corrupt that they allowed this to go on, but what else do you do?

As far as heroes go, I think the problem here doesn't lie in having athletes as heroes, as much as it just tells kids that the money and lifestyle is something to look up to.

I don't know. I just hate to see kids thinking that some of these guys, and women, are worth looking up to.

Granted, they are more visible.

But to me, it is obvious who is more "heroic".

Police, firefighteres, servicememebers, any number of folks that truly risk something everyday.

Frankly, more things bother me about pro sports than I would want to pollute this thread with.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

Not so easy. Say A-Rod faced Clemens...how does A-Rod now have an edge on Clemens?...

How do you separate the era? How do you say, Gaylord "spitball thrower" is a HOF and A-Rod isn't?

As always it is a matter of opinion. Seldom do you and I agree on opinions. It seems like maybe you forgot to ask if I even felt Perry was worthy of the honor.

[LSC9901]

Should Charlie Hustle be allowed in ?

[Phils20]

I'm biased, but I still say yes.

But as a player, and he should never be allowed to coach, manage again.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Should Charlie Hustle be allowed in ?

Why not?

Dale Murphy was a model citizen with 396 homers and he is not in...

Yeah, I would vote in Rose, and Shoeless Joe...kicked out of baseball is one thing...out of the Hall for life...naw...they earned it.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

Why not?

Dale Murphy was a model citizen with 396 homers and he is not in...

Yeah, I would vote in Rose, and Shoeless Joe...kicked out of baseball is one thing...out of the Hall for life...naw...they earned it.

I feel, AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, it lowers the value of the award. When the rules are broken and there is acceptance then those who won the award on their own abilities get cheated. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

BUT THAT IS JUST MY OPINION

[LSC9901]

So when Murphy was eligible who did he go up against ? Unfortunately the voting is subjective, not objective. If he were up against better players then it was just his bad luck. Look how long it took Jim Rice.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I feel, AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, it lowers the value of the award. When the rules are broken and there is acceptance then those who won the award on their own abilities get cheated. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

BUT THAT IS JUST MY OPINION

and i say put all those with worthy stats in the Hall ...... no way for anyone to tell who took what imo

so many in the 60's - 80's took speed .... i see it as that era's steroids ...... Bonds took the record from Hank .. and most of us are convinced Bonds took steroids .. are we so sure Hank never took speed .... im not

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by simple simon

and i say put all those with worthy stats in the Hall ...... no way for anyone to tell who took what imo

so many in the 60's - 80's took speed .... i see it as that era's steroids ...... Bonds took the record from Hank .. and most of us are convinced Bonds took steroids .. are we so sure Hank never took speed .... im not

The Hank question will always be one there is no answer to but now with drug testing and admissions of using steroids how can you look away ? I only suggest that if there is proof of use then apply the asterisk. if a player doesn't want to be tagged as a user then don't do it and if he can make the record books he'll be one of the stronger links because there is no asterisk next to his name. I can agree to let them into the HOF but with notation. Is that really all that bad ? Sooner or later public pressure to be clean will, hopefully, prevail.