[EmpireWF]

Let me preface this by saying, I'm a Mets fan and have been for 9 years now. During this time, the Mets and Phillies have rarely played for a playoff spot against each other specifically and only now are "fighting" for the top spot. In the past decade we've had the Braves on top and the Marlins a good contender for a number of years. So, do you guys sense the Mets/Phillies almost non-rivalry?

Also, how do you guys feel about your teams apparant collapse? I know it's only mid-June but whenever I watch the Phillies, they always just seem flat and such. I'd tend to blame the manager but with guys like Abreu (alligator arms/body) and Burrell, it's tough to place all the blame on Manuel.

[MJHMarc]

I am a neutral (leaning towards the Mets) baseball fan, EmpireWF, so I can not answer your question. I am not exactly sure if we have any true Philadelphia fans in this forum. We must add some to our membership list, though!

Don't forget that the Phillies got rid of a few of their stars during the off-season and some of their current players are on the Disabled list. Mike Lieberthal and Jon Lieber should be returning shortly, but Billy Wagner, Jim Thome and Kenny Lofton won't be anytime soon. Tom Gordon is doing fine and Ryan Howard is excellent. Rowand is slightly stumbling, as Thome soars to the tops of the lists. Not recently, but Thome will finish the season strong. I would keep my eye on Tom Gordon who has an incredibly low ERA (1.61) and about a 19:20 ratio of saves to saves opportunities. That is almost a 95% of getting a save, which leads me to believe that he will be of the league's top closers by the end of the year. The rest of their line-up returns but Bobby Abreu isn't knocking that many homers out this season. His RBI count is fairly high, but it doesn't look like MVP numbers on my end of the stick. How about yours?

[legend]

This roster has underachieved with two opposites at the helm- Larry Bowa and Charlie Manuel. Time to blow it up and build over. Burrell and Abreu are the best place to start. Howard, Rollins, Rowand, and Utley are a good enough nucleus to build a team around. If you can get some pitching for the other pair, do it.

[ThePundit]

The Phillies must be stunned . What a butt kicking they took.

[MJHMarc]

Ryan Howard and Chase Utley have the potential of becoming All-Stars. Especially Chase Utley who is just a magnificent athlete. I hope to see him in the Hall of Fame right next to Roger Clemens and Babe Ruth. It is still a little too early to call the play.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by MJHMarc

Ryan Howard and Chase Utley have the potential of becoming All-Stars. Especially Chase Utley who is just a magnificent athlete. I hope to see him in the Hall of Fame right next to Roger Clemens and Babe Ruth. It is still a little too early to call the play.

Too early to call?...you kill me Marc... ...might has well call the Kentucky Derby after the first furlong...

[philhopeful]

I must admit that I am a true Phils fan, although I am hesitant to admit it. It is hard to disagree with much of what has been said. I have to remain hopeful that in a year of severe mediocrity in the NL, the biggest underachievers of all have a shot at the wildcard. Big series with Cinci on-going - we will see!

[MJHMarc]

It seems as if my projections were right, Gotham Dark Knight.

Look who represent the NL in the past All-Star game!

[longtimephillyfan]

Born and raised in Philly, I've followed this team wherever I resided. Burrell was a bona fide All American 3rd baseman in College; put him back at 3rd base; play Dellucia every day; shore up the pitching staff and go after a big bat for the outfield. What do you think? The foundation is set with young, talented studs.

[ThePundit]

Welcome to GoTeamsGo longtimephillyfan. Burrell seems like a trouble maker. Would the Phillies not be better off trading him and perhaps getting back some arms?

[philhopeful]

longtimephillyfan

I agree with much of your premise but we hve been talking about shoring up pitching for years. Ever since the Phils dealt Shilling, the organization has continued to try and put something consistent together (the debacle with Milton for example) I think at some point you have to make a real commitment to pitching. I mean the real theme over the past five years has been they just can't keep other teams from scoring runs down the stretch.

[rmjvol]

Welcome to GoTeamsGo, longtimephillyfan & philhopeful

Look forward to chatting with you.

[MJHMarc]

Welcome to the GoTeamsGo Fan Forum, longtimephillyfan and also philhopeful.

I think the biggest pitching losses that have hit the Philles were:
-Schilling
-Wagner

Right now, their pitching is nothing special at all. They don't have any Roger Clemens on the rise, either.

[philhopeful]

Last night as the Phils dropped another close one, I had what I considered an insightful moment. The Phils just fundamentally don;t know how to win. I firmly believe that a in order to be successful you have to know what it feels like to get there. The Phils can be competative and may sometimes get close but neither their manager nor their players know what it feels like to believe they are going to win. Many of you guys that have seriously competed know what I am talking about. Winners have a historical based knowledge of what it takes to finish out a come back or what the self confidence feels like to know that you are just going to win. The Phils lack this - I believe!

Thoughts ? What do you think longtimephillyfan?

[Lefty Noob]

Hmm... interesting theory. How many players do they have on their roster with playoff experience? I know Manuel had some good teams with Cleveland, so he in theory should have a pretty good idea what it takes to get the job done, but the skipper can only do so much. The players have got to have "IT" - that mystical inner-drive and will to succeed that seperates the men from the boys.