[thunderdan]

Are there any Phillies fans on this board? If so stop by.

[MVB]

I have to say the Yanks are my favorite baseball team, but the Phillies are another team I also enjoy to watch.

Do you think the Phils can play past the Mets and win the National League East title? Or will their only shot at the playoffs next year be via the wildcard?

[thunderdan]

If the Phillies can get good set up man in return for Jon Lieber and the Mets starting rotation stays the same the Phillies have a legit chance to win the division. I am not saying they will because the Mets have a very good bullpen and everyday lineup, but the Phillies will have a chance if they get off to a good start. The last 2 years they were below 4 games below .500 at the end of April and put themselves in a huge hole. Hopefully Gillick got rid of a few losers on the team and replaced them with winning players.

[njpsufan]

Phils should do it this year. The have, arguably, one of the best staffs in the NL. Plus they have a starter to deal. The Mutts have done nothing this off season... oh they signed 40 yr old Moises Alou. Shawn Green got a yr older as did Tom Glavine. They lost Tracshel, no big deal as he was the worst 15 game winner out there. Sure they can score runs but if your staff gives them up where does that leave you?? However I agree... they can no longer afford the slow starts.

[MVB]

The Phillies rotation ( Garcia, Myers, Hamels, Eaton, and Moyer) is really solid, probably even better then the Mets. And if Howard should duplicate his last season, the Phils' offense should be just fine. Remember, the Phillies were the National League's top run-scoring team last year (beating the Mets by 31 runs).

The only thing the Phils need now is a decent pen. If they can trade Lieber for a young arm or two (to go along with Gordon), the Phillies should be set for 07.

[njpsufan]

Here's a trade... Yanks trade Johnson. Phils trade Lieber to Yanks for Farnsworth and one of the Yanks pitching prospects. Yanks get the SP they need, Phils get a bullpen guy with gas, who can close if/when Gordon needs a break.

[MVB]

The Yanks experimented with Lieber a few years ago (2004), and he wasn't really successful in New York. The Phils would be better off swapping arms with a team that actually has a good bullpen ( the Bombers are somewhat weak in this area).

Perhaps a Lieber to the Angels or even the Orioles ( for Walker, Baez, or Bradford) trade would be better.

[njpsufan]

I disagree. He won 14 games that yr... tied for team lead. Had 2nd best ERA on team... actually Kevin Brown pitched 50 innings less. Overall he was their best pitcher. Was winning game 2 agst Minn until Gordon blew it, then outduelled Pedro to beat the Sox in game 2. Only neg is that he is 36 yrs old and has not kept himself in the best shape. Cashman let him go to sign Carl Pavano.... big mistake. Lieber is a better fit at #4 for the Yanks then Johnson, plus he is $8M cheaper.

[MVB]

Actually, you're right... I just went back and looked at some of Lieber's stats, and they weren't that bad. His ERA was a bit high, and he fell 30 innings short of 200 for the season. But other then that, he didn't do too badly.

There are a few reasons I wouldn't encourage this deal:

- would Lieber be able to pitch 200 innings or would he hand the Yankee 'pen a ton of work?

- Johnson would probably win more games then Lieber

- the Yankee bullpen is shallow as it is, giving up an arm would be somewhat foolish

- Lieber's ERA last year was 4.93 ( 27 homers), and that was in the NL. How would he adjust to a return to the AL?

[njpsufan]

200 innings... close but I think he still can. Johnson turns 43 and he died as the year went on. Still won 17 games but I honestly think this was his last gasp. If Cashman thought he could still do it would he be trying to trade him?? Lieber was hurt last year for a short time, ntg major, but I think he gets you 15 wins , esp pitching in Yankee Stadium which is much more pitcher-friendly then CBP. If the Yanks trade Johnson that leaves them a staff of Mussina, Pettite and Wang with Pavano maybe. Add Lieber and they get to keep Scott Proctor and Aaron Small in the pen. Farnsworth is tradeable. Plus they just signed Igewa so he will be in the pen also. Think their pen is stronger then you think.

[MVB]

First of all, Aaron Small is no longer a major leaguer, and I doubt he'll ever be in pinstripes again (sad, no?). As for the Yankee pen- there's Mo and Proctor, but that's about it. Dotel and Sturze were released. Myers will only face one or two batters at a time. Villone can't be used too much or he'll break down like he did last year. Farnsworth is frightfully inconsistent. What's left? Nothing.... Igawa is headed to the rotation ( #5 or #6) so he won't be of much help here.

The Yankees don't need Lieber too badly, look at the (major league ready) starters they already have:

Randy Johnson
Mike Mussina
Chien-Ming Wang
Andy Pettitte
Carl Pavano
Kei Igawa
Humberto Sanchez
Jeff Karstens
Darrel Rasner
Phil Hughes

New York needs to concentrate on adding to their pen, not taking away from it.

[njpsufan]

I stand corrected about Small.
Johnson, Mussina, Wang, Pettitte... agree
Pavano to me is too big of a question mark
Igawa will be in the pen they say, perhaps spot start.
Karstans and Rasner played in a combined 14 games last yr so big question marks there also.
I saw Hughes pitch last yr several times for Trenton which is AA. He will start next yr in AAA as will Sanchez whom they got from Detroit in the Sheffield deal.

So figure they keep 13 pitchers... SP are Johnson, Mussina. Wang, Pettitte and Pavano.
RP are Igawa, Karstans, Rasner, Myers, Villone, Farnsworth, Proctor and Riveria.

They are obviously looking to get rid of Johnson. With Pavano being a question mark (to me), they need another SP. Hey if they want to trade us Hughes or Sanchez for Lieber, I would do that.

[MVB]

Well remember, the Yanks are also going after Clemens. Even if he only pitches half the year, the Bombers could get Karstens or Pavano to pitch for the first three months of the baseball season.

The Yankees were the winningest team in the AL last year, even with the starting rotation they had. During this offseason, they've added Sanchez, Igawa, and Pettitte. I really think they have plenty of arms...

And I seriously doubt the Yanks would give up their new arms (Sanchez) or their pride and joy (Hughes) to the Phillies for Lieber. In fact, I can't see the Yankees giving the Phillies any form of pitching in return for Lieber. How about a Lieber for Cabrera trade? The Yanks don't need Melky, and the Phillies could put him in the field, on the bench, or on the trade market. But I guess that wouldn't solve the Phillies' pitching problem, would it?

[njpsufan]

I would take Melky for Lieber in a flash. Maybe throw in a AA pitching prospect too. Then we can play him in RF and Victorino in CF. Rowand would then be traded for pitching. I saw Cabrera play in Trenton 2 yrs ago and the kid can play. Plus at 21 he could be our RF for years to come.

[MVB]

I doubt the Yankees would be the team throwing in the extra player here.

Yeah, Cabrera is really good. Defensively, he's probably the best outfielder on the team, and offensively, he's pretty good. He's a switch-hitter with power (7HRs, 50 RBI last year).

And, if the Phils decide to trade Burrell for some pitching (maybe some relievers), Cabrera can take over in left.