[ThePundit]

According to Bill Madden of the NY Daily News, who is closer to Steinbrenner as any sportswriter and he's friends with Lou Piniella also. Joe Torre will be fired - (and rightly so) this week and Lou Piniella will be manager. He said that he's never seen Steinbrenner so upset in all the years he's been covering the Yanks.....(And I've seen him pretty upset)...Also, A- Rod will tried to be moved...and rightly so.....He's like kenny Rogers was 10 years ago...

[Trashed]

And rightly so is right Pundit. From 2004-present Joe Torre has done the worst job of managing any team in professional sports bar none. That includes Larry Brown for all you hoops fans and Steve Mariucci for pigskin fans to put it in perspective. I'm serious. At least Mariucci and Brown tried to coach but all Torre did was sit and sulk on the bench that his buddies Stottlemyre and Zimmer weren't there and got a fortune for it! Not only should he be fired but he should be exiled to a small island the way Napolean was after that cold Russian winter.

[MVB]

Yeah, you have to ask yourself? How can you possibly lose with an All Star lineup like the one the Yanks trotted out this year?

Bad manager.

Now, I loved what Torre did in '96-'99, but after those WS years, he kinda gave up.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by MVB

Yeah, you have to ask yourself? How can you possibly lose with an All Star lineup like the one the Yanks trotted out this year?

Bad manager.

Now, I loved what Torre did in '96-'99, but after those WS years, he kinda gave up.

What's the difference?...it wasn't Torre who could not hit Tiger pitching.

[Trashed]

Originally Posted by MVB

Bad manager.

Worst manager. If Dennis Rodman was managing the Yanks in that series the Yanks would have swept. It's so obvious that Joe doesn't care anymore that he like many of his overaged, egomaniacal, gutless players (Johnson, Williams, Sheffield, Wright, Rodriguez) not only hinder the team but stand like a brick wall on their way to EVER winning another world series. The truth hurts so here's more bad news...most of those senior citizens depleted the already neglected Yankee farm system so rebuilding is gonna be near impossible. Getting Barry Zito isn't gonna do crapola guys. You can't put a band aid on a severed spine.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by Trashed

Worst manager. If Dennis Rodman was managing the Yanks in that series the Yanks would have swept. It's so obvious that Joe doesn't care anymore that he like many of his old, egomaniacal, gutless players (Johnson, Williams, Sheffield, Wright, Rodruigez) not only hinder the team but stand like a brick wall on their way to EVER winning a world series. The truth hurts so here's more bad news...most of those senior citizens depleted the already neglected Yankee farm system so rebuilding is gonna be near impossible. Getting Barry Zito isn't gonna do crapola guys. You can't put a band aid on a severed spine.

OR...they were simply out pitched in a playoff series...give Detroit a little credit my man...

[Trashed]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

OR...they were simply out pitched in a playoff series...give Detroit a little credit my man...

The Tigers deserve all the credit in the world but there no excuse looking at the Yankee roster with some good pitching (Wang, Mussina), the best hitting team in the majors and the best closer why they should or could have lost that series. This is almost as bad as the 2004 meltdown against the Sox. Sorry but it's 80% Joe Torre's fault and i'm being generous!

[MVB]

Yes, Detroit out-pitched them. But did you see what Leyeland did after his team went down a game? He started creating runs- having his players steal, hit and run, bunt, and small stuff like that. When the Yankees hadn't scored a run for 17+ innings, Torre needed to do stuff like that ( especially in game 2+3).

The Tigers had just been swept by the KC Royals!!! How could the Yankees, with the greatest lineup in the majors, lost so badly to Detroit?

[EmpireWF]

Originally Posted by Trashed

Worst manager. If Dennis Rodman was managing the Yanks in that series the Yanks would have swept. It's so obvious that Joe doesn't care anymore that he like many of his overaged, egomaniacal, gutless players (Johnson, Williams, Sheffield, Wright, Rodriguez) not only hinder the team but stand like a brick wall on their way to EVER winning another world series. The truth hurts so here's more bad news...most of those senior citizens depleted the already neglected Yankee farm system so rebuilding is gonna be near impossible. Getting Barry Zito isn't gonna do crapola guys. You can't put a band aid on a severed spine.

C'mon now. I wouldn't lay ALL the blame on Torre. He's not a great game manager but that's not what his specialty is. He handles all the personalities and keeps everyone in check. I argue that any manager could've gotten them to win. A manager does get a guy to start hitting or a pitcher to throw consistant strikes.

[MVB]

Yes, but when a batter isn't hitting, a good manager takes him out of the lineup. A good manager would bring in a pinch-hitter for the struggling batter when he is up in a big spot. When a pitcher isn't throwing strikes, a good manager would pull him out of the ballgame ( like Leyeland and Randolph).

[Trashed]

Originally Posted by MVB

Yes, but when a batter isn't hitting, a good manager takes him out of the lineup. A good manager would bring in a pinch-hitter for the struggling batter when he is up in a big spot. When a pitcher isn't throwing strikes, a good manager would pull him out of the ballgame ( like Leyeland and Randolph).

Exactly. MVB took the words right out of my mouth. And if he can keep all those egos in check than hes a great psychologist but still a terrible baseball manager at least for the past 3 years. Would you want Sigmund Freud managing the Yanks? The Yankees were world series crown or bust....well it turned out bust so let Torre accept his fate like a man for once. Why are we talking about this team anyway? It would seem that another team who shall remain nameless are the NEW kings of New York!

[EmpireWF]

Originally Posted by MVB

Yes, but when a batter isn't hitting, a good manager takes him out of the lineup. A good manager would bring in a pinch-hitter for the struggling batter when he is up in a big spot. When a pitcher isn't throwing strikes, a good manager would pull him out of the ballgame ( like Leyeland and Randolph).

Everyone was struggling though. You're not going to pinch hit for A-Rod if that's what you're hinting at.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by EmpireWF

Everyone was stuggling though. You're not going to pinch hit for A-Rod if that's what you're hinting at.

I am with you on this...But hey they want a scapegoat.

[Trashed]

Originally Posted by Gotham Dark Knight

I am with you on this...But hey they want a scapegoat.

No, we paid a lot for something and we want what we paid for. K-Rod, Torre and gang knew the consequences of there contracts and now they must be held accountable. That's like saying Charles Manson is a scapegoat because his followers comitted murder and not ol' Charlie.

[legend]

My take on things is this. To promote their YES network, the Yankees had to add some of baseball's biggest names. In doing so they got away from the type of team that got them to the promised land. No Knoblauchs, no Leyritzes, no Brosiuses, no Tinos, etc. Instead you get one dimensional sluggers like Giambi and Sheffield, plus A-Rod, who nobody could have foreseen as being this big of a disaster.
If Torre had his druthers, I am sure he could have done without all these guys. But when the boss wants the big names, you have to manage them. And face it, if he took any of these guys out of the lineup and replaced them with a Melky Cabrera or Andy Phillips, he would have been killed in the papers and the talk shows by guys like us.
This can be fixed really easy. Bye to Sheffield, try to trade A-Rod to the Angels for some pitching and a guy like Chone Figgins as has been rumored. Sign Zito and or Ted Lilly and let the guys like Karstens into the rotation. You are stuck with Johnson for one more year, make the best of it. Boston is a mess, and there's no reason to think the Yankees cannot win without Shefield and A-Rod.