[Weird harold]

I completely agree that the Patriots could of beat the Jets without cheating. Probably could of done it with half of their team.

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I do agree and that is the nature of being a sports fan, but with all that said I still feel that it is long since done and the price has been paid and will be paid in the future. For those who are NASCAR fans you'll know that I have no love for Chad Knaus, a crew chief who has cheated on several occasions. He has paid the penalties and I do not continually harp about it to the degree that I see here. I ask what more do you want to see happen that is within reason ? I'm sure some want Belichick off the field and out of football forever. Will you apply that same punishment to offenses of equal or greater value. Why do we allow steroid/drug users to return ??? Vick has the possibility of returning. What is the real reason for all this dislike ???

I want a more severe punishment, having taken away their first round draft doesnt hurt them cause they have another one, and what does michael vick killing puppies have to do with the patriots cheating?

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

I want a more severe punishment, having taken away their first round draft doesnt hurt them cause they have another one

that's a fluke of the draft and a trade

and what does michael vick killing puppies have to do with the patriots cheating?

his point is very simple ...... Vick killed innocent animals through torture .. and most people have let it gone and moved past it .... yet Belichick taped 1/2 of a game and people just cant let it go .... GET OVER IT

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

I want a more severe punishment, having taken away their first round draft doesnt hurt them cause they have another one, and what does michael vick killing puppies have to do with the patriots cheating?

and again I would ask what do you want that is within reason ??? Keep in mind that the punishment should be applied to all who did anything similar in the past. Shula in the 70's !!!

Would the Jets have won that game if the video taping had not occurred ?

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by simple simon

that's a fluke of the draft and a trade


his point is very simple ...... Vick killed innocent animals through torture .. and most people have let it gone and moved past it .... yet Belichick taped 1/2 of a game and people just cant let it go .... GET OVER IT

yes, very convenient they are not hurt by the penalty, and I dont care what people think about vick, hes behind bars, the fact still remains the patriots are cheaters and should have a asterick beside them if they win the super bowl, the jets game was the only one they were caught on, how many more before that did they get away with?

[azrael492]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

yes, very convenient they are not hurt by the penalty, and I dont care what people think about vick, hes behind bars, the fact still remains the patriots are cheaters and should have a asterick beside them if they win the super bowl, the jets game was the only one they were caught on, how many more before that did they get away with?

On their perfect season....none. That was their first game. Everything they have accomplished this year has been above board. No asterisk.

Are you now wanting them to be punished for something they might have done??

[Weird harold]

Originally Posted by simple simon

that's a fluke of the draft and a trade


his point is very simple ...... Vick killed innocent animals through torture .. and most people have let it gone and moved past it .... yet Belichick taped 1/2 of a game and people just cant let it go .... GET OVER IT

The difference is, justice was served in Vick's case, so we can get over that.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Weird harold

The difference is, justice was served in Vick's case, so we can get over that.

So I again return to my initial request. What would be FAIR justice for this case ... and be realistic.

[Weird harold]

I think they should of kicked him out of the league. He shouldn't have the chance to redeem himself, or prove that he doesn't need to cheat to win. You may not think that's realistic, and I respect your opinion, but that's my opinion. By the way if it was the Bears who got caught cheating, I'd feel the same way. It's more important than one guy, or one team. Pro football is supposed to be two teams competing, and the best team wins, with no help, no cheating. Do you want it to become like professional wrestling, with a script, and a predetermined winner, because that's the next step, if you don't do anything, or next to nothing about it. I think I "hate" Roger Godell more than I "hate" Belachick.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Weird harold

I think they should of kicked him out of the league. He shouldn't have the chance to redeem himself, or prove that he doesn't need to cheat to win. You may not think that's realistic, and I respect your opinion, but that's my opinion. By the way if it was the Bears who got caught cheating, I'd feel the same way. It's more important than one guy, or one team. Pro football is supposed to be two teams competing, and the best team wins, with no help, no cheating. Do you want it to become like professional wrestling, with a script, and a predetermined winner, because that's the next step, if you don't do anything, or next to nothing about it. I think I "hate" Roger Godell more than I "hate" Belachick.

More than anything else on these forums I do respect anothers opinions but ......when I ask about realistic punishment I guess I mean what can be imposed by the NFL that remains within the guidelines for the infraction. I will never argue that what was being done was right. I will argue that the penalties were imposed by the governing body, the eventual outcome of the game more than likely would not have been any different. Would you be willing to fire every coach or maybe even an owner for improper/illegal practices ? Again please do not mistake my questions for taunting arguments. I realize I am a Pat's fan but I like to think that I can at least try to view it the same way for any team/player/owner etc.....

[Weird harold]

I guess I have to plead ignorance, as to what the guidelines are. It seams that it would be common sense that the current guidelines, whatever they are would say something about removal, or at least some kind of suspension for cheating. If they don't, then they need to change that.

Yes, every coach, owner, get rid rid of them.

Again, it's my opinion that if the 2007 Patriots played the 2007 Jets 100 times, the Patriots would win at least 99 of those games, and they wouldn't have to cheat to do it. They are obviously a far superior team, but in the Olympics for example, if someone gets caught cheating they take their medal away. Why not make the Patriots forfeit that game?

[azrael492]

Originally Posted by Weird harold

I guess I have to plead ignorance, as to what the guidelines are. It seams that it would be common sense that the current guidelines, whatever they are would say something about removal, or at least some kind of suspension for cheating. If they don't, then they need to change that.

Yes, every coach, owner, get rid rid of them.

Again, it's my opinion that if the 2007 Patriots played the 2007 Jets 100 times, the Patriots would win at least 99 of those games, and they wouldn't have to cheat to do it. They are obviously a far superior team, but in the Olympics for example, if someone gets caught cheating they take their medal away. Why not make the Patriots forfeit that game?

That makes perfect sense and I never thought of that before. I personally don't think they cheated, but if the NFL believed it that would be the perfect punishment. Have them forfeit the game. They do it at every level of sports from high school to college. Why not in the pros?

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Weird harold

I guess I have to plead ignorance, as to what the guidelines are. It seams that it would be common sense that the current guidelines, whatever they are would say something about removal, or at least some kind of suspension for cheating. If they don't, then they need to change that.

Yes, every coach, owner, get rid rid of them.

Again, it's my opinion that if the 2007 Patriots played the 2007 Jets 100 times, the Patriots would win at least 99 of those games, and they wouldn't have to cheat to do it. They are obviously a far superior team, but in the Olympics for example, if someone gets caught cheating they take their medal away. Why not make the Patriots forfeit that game?

Honestly I'd not have an issue with that but this is sort of like the steroids issue. Do we start from this day forward ? You can also bet, just as Clemens is doing, there would be lawyers involved !!! As one of our NASCAR regulars keeps reminding us, be careful what you ask for ... you might get it.

[Bette]

I'm pretty much past this hate the Pats because they cheated thing, but I like Weird Harold's idea of making a team forfeit a game if they are found cheating. Its too late to impose that on the Pats now, but maybe it should be something for the future.
Of course, then comes the sticky question of what is defined as cheating? Those of you who just dont believe it happens all the time are maybe not in touch with reality. Coaches, players, admit it has happened all the time. Isnt reading lips a form of cheating? Teams sometimes try to sneak their own people into other teams practices to scout out the players. Couldnt icing the kicker count as sort of unfair advantage?? What about faking injuries or non injuries or giving out false information? Where do we draw the line?
Guidelines would have to be really clear. They seem a bit wishy washy right now.

[Lefty Noob]

Think of the flaws in DQing a team for "cheating" - any time someone gets caught using steroids, would their team have to forfeit any games he played in? That would cause a ton of headaches. As for icing the kicker, the worst I think you could do is flag them 15 yards for delay of game.