[Bob Tanner]

You and I must be about the same age, Yelk. In fact you're one of the very few people I've talked with who have followed NASCAR longer than I have. You go all the way back to the start in 1949 and 1950. I can only claim personal knowledge of NASCAR from 1957 to present.

Here is one that your , or one of the other knowledgeable fans here, might remember or know:

At th end of 1964 many drivers had concerns about the speed that the Grand National cars were attaining. Several drivers lost their lives in crashes in 1964 and Freddie Lorenzen went so far as threatening to leave NASCAR if something wasn't done. NASCAR instituted five general rules to address the problem 1 was to limit engine size to stock block production engines of no more than 428 c.i. (2) was to limit engines to one four-barrel carb. (3) was to mandate rubber lined fuel tanks. (4) banned the use of two specific engines. What were those two engines? note: The rule banning one of these engines was modified later in the season. (5) addressed a frame change and make final the fact the NASCAR no longer ran "stock" cars. What was that change?

[LSC9901]

One engine was the infamous "Hemi", which later returned to NASCAR. I would guess the frame issue was the unibody frame that they later got away from.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

One engine was the infamous "Hemi", which later returned to NASCAR. I would guess the frame issue was the unibody frame that they later got away from.

The Hemi was one of the two banned engines.
FYI, this banning basically stemmed from a ego-driven tift that NASCAR and USAC Stock Car Div were having (a long, involved, convoluted dispute which I won't bore you with). At mid-season, Bill Sr and Henry Banks (USAC jeffe) reached an agreement and the following changes were made:

1. Minimum auto weight limit (with full tank of fuel) of 9.36 lbs. per cubic inch; i.e.: a 427 Hemi must weight at least 3996.7 lbs.
2. Hemi's could run on tracks on 1-mile or more provided they were in a Plymouth Fury, or either a Dodge Polara or 880.
3. Hemi's were permitted on smaller tracks and road courses only in Plymouth Belvedere or Dodge Coronet bodies.

...and we think, today, that Brian Z. can really screw up rules and regulations. His granddaddy took rule-tampering to an art form!

Unibody isn't correct. That one goes back to 1961 or 1962 I believe. I'll have to look it up in my reference material.

[Quality88]

Wasn't the Boss 429 one.... I bet I've got my info crossed or was it the clevelands?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Wasn't the Boss 429 one.... I bet I've got my info crossed or was it the clevelands?

Close enough, Dustin. It was the Ford 427 with high riser heads. It also had factory installed roller cam and roller tappets.

IN another sidenote about engines in 1965, Ford developed the single overhead cam engine which it used successfully in european competition and they were planning on showing up in NASCAR with it. Chrysler fought back by announcing they had a double overhead cam engine prototype and would produce just enough of them to meet NASCAR"s minimum available to the public rule.

Ford backed down...NASCAR banned the Hemi, and Chrysler went to run in USAC.

[Bob Tanner]

OK, no one came up with the change I asked for. The frame change NASCAR came up with in 1965 was to modify the wheelbase of the cars. They changed it to 119 inches on superspeedways (back then NASCAR viewed every track of one mile or more in length as a superspeedway) and 116 inches on short tracks and road courses.

Can you imagine the number of cars each team would have today if NASCAR mandated different wheelbases for different tracks?

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

OK, no one came up with the change I asked for. The frame change NASCAR came up with in 1965 was to modify the wheelbase of the cars. They changed it to 119 inches on superspeedways (back then NASCAR viewed every track of one mile or more in length as a superspeedway) and 116 inches on short tracks and road courses.

Can you imagine the number of cars each team would have today if NASCAR mandated different wheelbases for different tracks?

I'm curious as to the reasoning behind a change in wheelbase of 3 inches. What was the effect ?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I'm curious as to the reasoning behind a change in wheelbase of 3 inches. What was the effect ?

It was to slow down the cars on the superspeedways. I'm not a mechanical or aeronautical engineer but the three inch difference must have had a sunstancial effect.

I do know that, in 1964 NASCAR lost Fireball, Joe Weatherly and Jimmy Pardue on superspeedways and Fred Lorenzen threatened to not run in 1965 if NASCAR didn't take measures to slow down the cars. Also speaking up for slowing the cars down were Buck Baker; "It's reached the point at the superspeedways where it's a big relief when a race ends and you're OK, no matter where you finished."
Junior Johnson was quoted, "We haven't learned enough to keep the cars handling safely at the speeds we now travel. And the tire companies are having trouble developing compounds that will give adequate wear."

Somehow I believe these quotes (taken in todo fromFielden's Forty years of Stock car Racing, Big Bucks and Boycotts 1965-1971) were cleaned up a bit from the actual quote. I can not picture Junior using that exact verbage.

[ZiggyM]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I do know that, in 1964 NASCAR lost Fireball, Joe Weatherly and Jimmy Pardue on superspeedways and Fred Lorenzen threatened to not run in 1965 if NASCAR didn't take measures to slow down the cars.

Joe Weatherly was killed after he crashed at Riverside. No window net and no shoulder harness caused his head to hit the wall in T6.

NASCAR mandated a minimum wheel base requirement so a 119" wheel base car would have been allowed to run on the short tracks where the minimum was 116" but not the other way around. Longer wheel base is more stable at high speeds, short wheel base is more maneuverable. Sounds like they wanted only the more stable 119" cars at the big tracks.

ZM