[Yelk]

Who was the first two time Champion in NASCARS' top division?

[LSC9901]

Herb Thomas 1951 & 1953

Drove a Hudson and won 7 races in '51 and 11 in '53. He won a total of 48 NASCAR races. Born in 1923 and died in 2000.

[Yelk]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Herb Thomas 1951 & 1953

Drove a Hudson and won 7 races in '51 and 11 in '53. He won a total of 48 NASCAR races. Born in 1923 and died in 2000.

Nope LSC9901, that is not correct, but good try.

[LSC9901]

In 1949, Thomas took part in NASCAR's first Strictly Stock (the forerunner to the modern Nextel Cup) race, and made 4 starts in the series' first year. The following year, he made 13 appearances in the series, now renamed the Grand National division, and scored his first career win at Martinsville Speedway in a self-owned Plymouth.
He started the 1951 season with moderate success in his Plymouth (plus one win in an Oldsmobile) before switching to a Hudson Hornet, at the suggestion of fellow driver Marshall Teague. Thomas won the Southern 500 rather handily in what was famously dubbed "The Fabulous Hudson Hornet", which would be the first of 6 wins he would earn in a two month span. His late charge helped him narrowly defeat Fonty Flock to win the Grand National championship. With help from crew chief Smokey Yunick, Thomas subsequently became the first owner/driver to take the championship in the process.

Herb Thomas (left) with Fonty Flock and Al Keller at Palm Beach, Florida fairgrounds (taken between 1952 and 1954), courtesy of the Florida Photographic Collection


In 1952, Thomas and his Hornet were involved in a close championship race with another Flock, Fonty's younger brother Tim. The two drivers won 8 races in their respective Hudsons, but Flock came out on top at the end, in spite of another late season charge from Thomas.
He returned with a vengeance in 1953 and dominated the entire season, winning a series best 12 races en route to becoming the first two-time series champion. Thomas won 12 races again in 1954, including a second Southern 500 win, but he was beaten by a more consistent Lee Petty in the championship standings.
After 4 years of success in a Hudson, Thomas began driving Chevrolets and Buicks in races in 1955. He crashed heavily behind the wheel of a Buick at a race in Charlotte, forcing him to miss 6 months of the season. He returned to score his third Southern 500 win in his Motoramic Chevy, one of three wins he would earn during the season. He finished 5th in the championship on the strength of his win at Darlington Raceway.
In 1956, Thomas briefly abandoned being an owner/driver and, after winning a race for himself early in the season, he won races with two other owners. He won a race in a Smokey Yunick-owned car, after which the two broke ties with each other, and then won three consecutive races while driving for Carl Kiekhaefer, who was dominating NASCAR at the time with his super-team. Thomas eventually returned to being an owner/driver at season's end, and had clinched second behind Petty in the championship when he was severely injured at a race in Shelby, North Carolina. The race effectively ended his NASCAR career, though he did start 2 races in 1957 and 1 in 1962 without success. The three consecutive wins would end up being his final three wins.

[Yelk]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

In 1949, Thomas took part in NASCAR's first Strictly Stock (the forerunner to the modern Nextel Cup) race, and made 4 starts in the series' first year. The following year, he made 13 appearances in the series, now renamed the Grand National division, and scored his first career win at Martinsville Speedway in a self-owned Plymouth.
He started the 1951 season with moderate success in his Plymouth (plus one win in an Oldsmobile) before switching to a Hudson Hornet, at the suggestion of fellow driver Marshall Teague. Thomas won the Southern 500 rather handily in what was famously dubbed "The Fabulous Hudson Hornet", which would be the first of 6 wins he would earn in a two month span. His late charge helped him narrowly defeat Fonty Flock to win the Grand National championship. With help from crew chief Smokey Yunick, Thomas subsequently became the first owner/driver to take the championship in the process.

Herb Thomas (left) with Fonty Flock and Al Keller at Palm Beach, Florida fairgrounds (taken between 1952 and 1954), courtesy of the Florida Photographic Collection


In 1952, Thomas and his Hornet were involved in a close championship race with another Flock, Fonty's younger brother Tim. The two drivers won 8 races in their respective Hudsons, but Flock came out on top at the end, in spite of another late season charge from Thomas.
He returned with a vengeance in 1953 and dominated the entire season, winning a series best 12 races en route to becoming the first two-time series champion. Thomas won 12 races again in 1954, including a second Southern 500 win, but he was beaten by a more consistent Lee Petty in the championship standings.
After 4 years of success in a Hudson, Thomas began driving Chevrolets and Buicks in races in 1955. He crashed heavily behind the wheel of a Buick at a race in Charlotte, forcing him to miss 6 months of the season. He returned to score his third Southern 500 win in his Motoramic Chevy, one of three wins he would earn during the season. He finished 5th in the championship on the strength of his win at Darlington Raceway.
In 1956, Thomas briefly abandoned being an owner/driver and, after winning a race for himself early in the season, he won races with two other owners. He won a race in a Smokey Yunick-owned car, after which the two broke ties with each other, and then won three consecutive races while driving for Carl Kiekhaefer, who was dominating NASCAR at the time with his super-team. Thomas eventually returned to being an owner/driver at season's end, and had clinched second behind Petty in the championship when he was severely injured at a race in Shelby, North Carolina. The race effectively ended his NASCAR career, though he did start 2 races in 1957 and 1 in 1962 without success. The three consecutive wins would end up being his final three wins.

But still not the correct answer. Sorry.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Herb Thomas 1951 & 1953

Drove a Hudson and won 7 races in '51 and 11 in '53. He won a total of 48 NASCAR races. Born in 1923 and died in 2000.

Ummmm --- NASCAR agrees with this answer in their records

So me thinks I'll jump on LSC's wagon then patiently wait to see if we (and seemingly NASCAR) have something to learn.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Yelk

But still not the correct answer. Sorry.

Assuming the Cup series is the top NASCAR series ...... I'll let you and NASCAR fight it out. Now if you feel the cup series isn't the top seies then you may have a point in the answer being incorrect.

We're all anxiously waiting.

[Yelk]

Ok, the top division of NASCAR in 1948 was the Modified Division and the top division in 1949 was Strictly Stock(what we know now as Cup). Red Byron was the NASCAR Champion in 1948 and 1949.

[LSC9901]

Interesting !!! I wonder why Nascar only does record keeping from 1949 on and doesn't include 1948. I'll have to try and find an answer for that ..... or maybe you know ??

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Yelk

Ok, the top division of NASCAR in 1948 was the Modified Division and the top division in 1949 was Strictly Stock(what we know now as Cup). Red Byron was the NASCAR Champion in 1948 and 1949.

Good stuff Yelk!!

Robert "Red" Byron (March 12, 1915 - November 11, 1960) was a NASCAR driver who was successful in the sanctioning body's first years. He was NASCAR's first Modified champion (and its first champion in any division) in 1948 and its first Strictly Stock (predecessor to NEXTEL Cup) champion in 1949.

I, like LSC, wonder why NASCAR does not acknowledge this in their history.

No matter - I repeat - Good stuff Yelk!

[LSC9901]

No doubt that it was a good question but now the better question is why don't they recognize it officially ???

[Yelk]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

No doubt that it was a good question but now the better question is why don't they recognize it officially ???

They? If you're talking about NASCAR, I have no idea. As for lots of folks, they don't know there is anything else besides Cup. I also detect some bitterness in your post. I didn't ask the question to make you or anyone mad. It was a trick question, asked to make folks think "outside of the box" so to speak. Oh well!!!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Yelk

They? If you're talking about NASCAR, I have no idea. As for lots of folks, they don't know there is anything else besides Cup. I also detect some bitterness in your post. I didn't ask the question to make you or anyone mad. It was a trick question, asked to make folks think "outside of the box" so to speak. Oh well!!!

Oh lord NO !!! No bitterness on my part. I love the trivia challenge but it did bring up an interesting question for me at least. Why don't they recognize the records the first year of their existance ???

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Interesting !!! I wonder why Nascar only does record keeping from 1949 on and doesn't include 1948. I'll have to try and find an answer for that ..... or maybe you know ??

Accordingt to Greg Fielden, NASCAR historian, NASCAR wanted the Strictly Stock to be the headlining event in 1948 but due to the shortage of available stock cars (the manufactorers were still playing catchup in making enough cars to fill the needs of the driving populace in 1948. The shortage was such that most fans wouldn't stand for seeing a brand new car getting beat up in a race while he was still tooling around in a pre-1940 clunker waiting for a new car to be available for him to buy) they couldn't get enough enrties to make a good race. The other two series' that NASCAR had were the modifieds and the roadsters. The roadsters fizzled and the mods ended up running 52 races in 1948, with Red taking the championship.

REF: Forty Years of Stock Car Racing, Greg Fielden, 1992, Galfield Press

Because NASCAR's desire to see a stock car division headline the season bombed (the stockers were allowed to run with the mods in some races) and NASCAR is (or actually WAS, but that's meat for another thread) they don't count 1948 as a recordable year.

Hope this answers your question.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Hope this answers your question.

Basically it does and that is what I suspected after a little research. So officially Red Byron is not the first two time winner ????