[vincesanity82]

Robin Pemberton, NASCAR's vice president of competition, said the sanctioning body has on numerous occasions taken steps to help "level the playing field among our competitors." "Toyota started from the get-go with a new style engine, while the other manufacturers are still in the process of producing theirs," he said. "I guess you can say they have excelled more than we anticipated." Asked if Toyota had done anything wrong, Pemberton was adamant: "Toyota has done nothing wrong whatsoever. They absolutely were working out of the box we set for all teams." Pemberton admitted that it may appear Toyota is being singled out for the success of its teams, but maintained it was NASCAR's responsibility to ensure no manufacturer had a competitive advantage. -- Charlotte Observer

Charlotte Observer | 07/23/2008 | Toyota boss faults change in rules for No. 2 series

[Lefty Noob]

I guess I still don't get it. He says Toyota is doing nothing wrong. It's just that they're working with a new style engine and other manufacturers haven't caught up yet? Smacks to me of the No Child Left Behind nonsense that's going on in public schools... if one prodigy picks something up and excels at it right away, he/she still needs to be held back so that the other students in the class can play catch-up. But what do I know... I'm the first to admit that I'm hardly a NASCAR expert.

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Throughout this whole TRD engine thing, I keep hearing "level the playing field". I'm no expert on aerodynamics and whatnot, but taking that wing off the back of the cars can't be that bad of an idea. If they want the playing field leveled, figure how it might be possible for one car to catch the guy in front of him.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

Pemberton admitted that it may appear Toyota is being singled out for the success of its teams, but maintained it was NASCAR's responsibility to ensure no manufacturer had a competitive advantage. [b][i]-- Charlotte Observer

Reaction to the first part of the above sentence: To quote a great satesman (can't remember whether it was Thomas Jefferson or Alfred E. Newman), "Well, Dah!!!???"

Reaction to the second part: No competitive advantage = parity = mediocrity. B-O-R-I-N-G!!!

[clutch]

Its really the Dumbing down of Nascar.

Its grey matter that is being outlawed

[NASCAR Gnome]

Reminds me of the stuff that goes on locally in the youth sports leagues...

"We don't keep score because we don't want the losing team to feel bad..."

"No one loses because everyone is special..."

"Everyone gets a medal/banner/button so they all feel special..."

It's pathetic because competing builds character which includes winning and losing.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by NASCAR Gnome

Reminds me of the stuff that goes on locally in the youth sports leagues...

"We don't keep score because we don't want the losing team to feel bad..."

"No one loses because everyone is special..."

"Everyone gets a medal/banner/button so they all feel special..."

It's pathetic because competing builds character which includes winning and losing.

I think that it'll be called "Outcome Based racing," Gnome. There is no winning and losing, it's all about whether you meant to be competitive. I mean, this same concept is working so well in our government schools, what could possibly go wrong in NA__AR?

[bob101]

No one wants to mention the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Teams that "race" that have zero expectations to win - nor do they care. They know if they put X amount of time/money into racing they will get Y out of it. You know that if you put that much into racing and keep expeditures down and have a reasonably succesful season you can actually turn a small profit running each week at 20-25th. Or at worst you loose a marginal amount while pursuing the life of being a racer.

Not everyone will have expectations of being a winner. Just like in the cup series not every team will have expectations of winning - being in the top 35 each week is enough.

[Racer Duck]

Yeah, there's way too many (one is too many!!!) people who start and park to take home a healthy check. Some even go as far as coasting around the track at the minimum speed in hopes the field will self destruct and they'll get a top 20 finish. At one time NA$CAR said they were gonna "monitor" those individuals and take appropriate action if they appeared to be coasting rather than racing. Then "Wonder-boy" (Terry Labonte) coasted around Sonoma and they ignored it. Guess that was "appropriate action", huh? There's plenty more names I could add, but my keyboard is tired and I need a coffee break...

[Loki309]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

I guess I still don't get it. He says Toyota is doing nothing wrong. It's just that they're working with a new style engine and other manufacturers haven't caught up yet? Smacks to me of the No Child Left Behind nonsense that's going on in public schools... if one prodigy picks something up and excels at it right away, he/she still needs to be held back so that the other students in the class can play catch-up. But what do I know... I'm the first to admit that I'm hardly a NASCAR expert.

A. I think you hit the nail on the head.

B. I hate the NCLB act. (I just wanted a B statement...but I do hate it)

It's dumb to do these things. The other quote I would like to make was based on the "No competition" competition rules (no score kept etc etc..).

When talking about tee ball or 5-8 year old softball/baseball I agree that it should be more about getting play time and learning the game than competing for a prize. However, competition builds character, and sportsmanship. So once they get the rules and regulations down, they need to go to the next level where they develop sportsmanship, and can learn winning gracefully and losing gracefully.

There is competition in all facets of life. Grades in school, getting that big sale at your business over the competition, county governments going against other counties for grants, even non-profit fund raisers compete against other non-profits. It's a dog eat dog world, people need to compete to stay ahead.


If you blanket everything in of those areas you take out some of the excitement of said area. In sports especially. And that's what is going on with Nascar, they are taking some of the excitement out of the sport. While it gets tedious to see someone win all the time, it will be even more exciting if we see Shrub get beaten by the end of the Chase. Why? Cause he was on top, and in competition he was out done.

As for Nascar being on Toyota's backside all the time, all they are doing is trying to make them conform to the blanket rules of the orginization. What they need to do is take the conformity out in some areas (I do think that their are areas that need to stay the same) so that teams can get outside that box and see all the awesome ideas that would make this sport the best darn one in the sports world.

Tell me to shut up...I talk to much when I post. :P

[Christisrisen]

Come on Guys you have got to be kidding me are we going to turn nascar into the NFL ( I am a grown man but do not taunt me it might hurt my feeling) If toyota is doing better then you than you better get working to catch up! Don't punish them for doing there job right from the start. Roush is one that is complaining so muchhe has been in the business so long and he does not want to get out done by nubies! so just race!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Yeah, there's way too many (one is too many!!!) people who start and park to take home a healthy check. Some even go as far as coasting around the track at the minimum speed in hopes the field will self destruct and they'll get a top 20 finish. At one time NA$CAR said they were gonna "monitor" those individuals and take appropriate action if they appeared to be coasting rather than racing. Then "Wonder-boy" (Terry Labonte) coasted around Sonoma and they ignored it. Guess that was "appropriate action", huh? There's plenty more names I could add, but my keyboard is tired and I need a coffee break...

I'll help you.. Joe Ruttman driving a Start&Park for James Finch five years ago (I don't remember the race). They got in because there were originally only 42 entrants and Finch made a last minute late entry. They qualified around 4-5 seconds slower than the field average. Then on race day they showed up with a car and driver, period. No pit crew, no extra tires and they didn't even put fuel in the fuel cans. The race started, Joe drove around the track to the pit entrance, pulled directly to the hauler and loaded up.

I think that was the incident which prompted NA__AR to announce that they were going to monitor such happenings.

I think they're doing a great job of "monitoring." At virtually every Cup lite and CTS race they "monitor" (watch) virtually the same teams each race go out because of "handling problems."

I feel kind of sorry for these guys, Duck. What they attempt to display is the old American Horatio Alger (you kids have an adult explain who Horatio was) story, much as your brother once did at a Super speedway; David going up against Goliath. Except when your brother did it, the odds weren't stacked so highly against him and he did better than today's S&P field-fillers do (for a whole lot less money!).

[Lefty Noob]

Originally Posted by Christisrisen

Come on Guys you have got to be kidding me are we going to turn nascar into the NFL ( I am a grown man but do not taunt me it might hurt my feeling) If toyota is doing better then you than you better get working to catch up! Don't punish them for doing there job right from the start. Roush is one that is complaining so muchhe has been in the business so long and he does not want to get out done by nubies! so just race!

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Christisrisen

Come on Guys you have got to be kidding me are we going to turn nascar into the NFL ( I am a grown man but do not taunt me it might hurt my feeling) If toyota is doing better then you than you better get working to catch up! Don't punish them for doing there job right from the start. Roush is one that is complaining so muchhe has been in the business so long and he does not want to get out done by nubies! so just race!

Lefty's concept, IRT our government school systems nails it but I'll shut up before I REALLY go on a rant.

Since the 1960's, NA__AR has seemed to delight in being a nanny to one car maker or another, in turn, all in the interest of "parity," which, as we all know, equals mediocrity.

When they were dealing with marginally stock car it was one thing. But now...??? NA__AR is, in effect, making the cars for the teams (designing them anyway) and providing them with restrictor plates to keep things even. NA__AR can't get it right, even when they control virtually everything!!!???

Talk about an ineffective bunch of bumpkins! I'm beginning to suspicion that our Imperial Federal Government is actually running NA__AR in it's abundant spare time.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Christisrisen

Come on Guys you have got to be kidding me are we going to turn nascar into the NFL ( I am a grown man but do not taunt me it might hurt my feeling) If toyota is doing better then you than you better get working to catch up! Don't punish them for doing there job right from the start. Roush is one that is complaining so muchhe has been in the business so long and he does not want to get out done by nubies! so just race!

Hey Christisrisen, welcome to GoTeamsGo and the NASCAR Forums. Looks like you think the same way many of us on this forum think .. on this subject, anyway. Hope you take time to let us know more of your opinions. We love having people who can give reasons/examples for their opinions.

Also, be sure to stop by the predictions thread and post yours for this week's race.

Again, welcome to GTG!