[jks812]

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) - NASCAR tried to even out the competition in the Nationwide Series on Wednesday by ordering all teams using Toyota motors to squeeze down their horsepower before this weekend's race in Indianapolis.


Toyota has won 14 of 21 races this season in the Nationwide Series, and all but one of them came in a Camry fielded by Joe Gibbs Racing. The exception was JGR driver Kyle Busch's victory at Charlotte in May in a car fielded by Braun Racing.
NASCAR ordered all the Toyota motors to use a smaller restrictor that will knock down 15 horsepower in the motors.
NASCAR recently sent 10 different motors for testing, and found that David Reutimann's Toyota was the best with an estimated 3 percent horsepower advantage over the competition. JGR's No. 18 car — which Busch drove to victory at Chicago right before the motors were tested — was second.
Roush Fenway Racing's Nos. 16 and 17 Fords were next, followed by JGR's No. 20 car, which has won nine races with four different drivers this season.
JGR builds its own motors for its two Nationwide Series cars. The rest of the Toyota engines in that series and the Craftsman Truck Series come from Triad Racing Development, a Bill Davis-owned company that leases engines.
Toyota president Lee White did not immediately return a call for comment.
Technically, the new guidelines aren't directed solely at Toyota. But because the automaker is working with a brand new engine and has access to the latest technology, Toyota teams have gained an advantage over the manufacturers using older engine models.
If the other manufacturers should reach the stage Toyota is currently at, they would be subject to the horsepower guidelines NASCAR mandated Wednesday. Chevrolet has been pushing to use its new engine in the Nationwide Series, and many believe that model is on par with the Toyota motors.

[jks812]

I don't understand the reasoning behind this. If they're not cheating to get more HP, whats the problem? Maybe the other manufacturers and teams should work harder. And obviously since the 16 and 17 had more HP than the 20, it's not just the Toyotas that have it.
Did they make Chevy do this when it dominated last year?

[LSC9901]

How long before this idea hit the cup series ?

[Phils20]

I think that is crap. And I'm a die hard Chevy fan. The domestic auto makers need to make a better engine, not look for a hand out from NASCAR.

Total BS, in my opinion.

[jks812]

But is it right for them to do this? Or should the other teams have to work harder. Thats the problem to me, they all want something gave to them instead of doing it for themselves.
When Chevy dominated they didn't make them slow down. To me this is just BS.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

How long before this idea hit the cup series ?

Well since a Toyota has the points lead....if not later this year then definitely next year.

[bob101]

So Chevy won 26 out of 36 cup races last year....why weren't people yelling at Chevy?

Anyway I really don't care either way. In 10 years NASCAR will be IROC v 2.0. They have already gone to spec bodies, near spec chassis, they issue the wings in cup, rear shocks for cup/nationwide/truck etc....This is just one step closer.

What bugs me is the chicken **** way they went about it. NASCAR is too chicken **** to come out and say Toyota HP has been lessened.

Instead the rule now states all engine makers with a bore spacing of cylinders less than XXXX will have to run a smaller tapered spacer. Guess who is the only engine that meets those crities? I'm kinda glad I never raced in NASCAR. I'm starting to ask what's the point of "racing" spec classes. Let's be honest...the more rules NASCAR has thrown out there in the last decade to make the cars more equal has equally killed any competition on the track.

I bet JGR still wins more races because in the nationwide series because spend more money, time and R&D on it together with Toyota - AND have some pretty talented drivers behind the wheel of their cars. It gets old listening to Rusty Wallace talk about it on TV. Maybe if he hired a driver that could keep the car in one piece till the end of the race he might have a different outlook. His driver doesn't need horsepower "that's for sure" as he would say.

Let's not forget horsepower is nice, but it's not the end all be all for racing - especially on a circle track. If that were the case David Reutimann would have won all the races since he had the most horsepower...yet he has no wins this year and 1 win last year. It's not a 1 to 1 ratio of most horsepower wins the race. My prediction is the teams that have been lobbying hard for this will still be finishing races in the same spot as they were before the change....behind a Toyota belonging to JGR.

[loco4pablo]

I wonder if when NASCAR was courting Toyota too come into the sport, they told them "But if you get too good we will pull in the reigns."
It is BS
They dominate the trucks too, why doesn't NASCAR screw with that too?

[clutch]

his is a related thread by Bob Margolis that I enjoyed reading a couple of days ago.

Does Busch have an advantage? - NASCAR - Yahoo! Sports

He mentions in the column that Nascar usually removes the apparent advantage to level the playing field.

this bit..
There is no other auto racing sanctioning body in the world that does the kind of comparative testing that NASCAR does on engines or on bodywork in the wind tunnel. This comes as a result of the sanctioning body’s decades-long battle to keep the competition on a level playing field.
In the past, when either a horsepower or aerodynamic advantage was discovered either by testing or through extensive lobbying by team owners or manufacturer representatives, NASCAR went to great pains to make things as even as possible. Typically, their reaction was to remove the apparent advantage.

[bob101]

wonder if when NASCAR was courting Toyota too come into the sport, they told them "But if you get too good we will pull in the reigns."
It is BS
They dominate the trucks too, why doesn't NASCAR screw with that too?

Because in all honesty right now if Toyota pulled out of the truck series they couldn't make a full field.

Not sure how many know this. But in all of NASCAR (truck/NW/cup) there are no more independant teams of the past. Everyone is tied to an auto maker.

You can't go out and start a team to compete in NASCAR without some sort of agreement with an auto maker.

Where would you get your blocks and heads for your engines without one? You don't build a cup engine on a standard small block chevy block.

Now there are tiers of teams. Some get all the raw parts for free and lots of free technical help. Some get a discount and some just flat pay for thier stuff...especially the smaller teams.

But let's say Toyota left the truck series. That's a lot of teams that now have to go to another brand. Not all those teams can be first tiered teams for another maker. Just not enough for say Chevy to field 6 teams at first tier status.

So the rest of those teams aren't going to be able to get a first tier deal and might not be able to make it on a second tier agreement.

Look at it this way. If say Dodge and Toyota left cup that would leave Chevy and Ford. You think Chevy is going to first tier supply 1/2 the field to compete with the other 1/2 of the field of fords? No.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by jks812

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) - NASCAR tried to even out the competition in the Nationwide Series on Wednesday by ordering all teams using Toyota motors to squeeze down their horsepower before this weekend's race in Indianapolis.

Well, well, well, isn't THAT special? (Sorry Church Lady) NA__AR's going to "even out the competition in the Cup Lire Series. Excuse me if I appear underwhelmed.

To "Even out the competition might well involve look at the following stats:

Since 2005 Cup Raiders have scarfed up 23 if the 30 potential top 10 spots in the final standings.
This season, in 19 Cup Lite races, 17 of them have been won by Cup Raiders driving almost exclusively cars prepared by Cup teams and using Cup technology. One of the two winners going to non Cup Raiders was the win by "The Greatest Thing To Happen to NA__AR Since The Invention of 100 MPH Tape" in the legendary #20 JGR go-machine.

"Even out the competition..." Don't make me laugh!

[Bob Tanner]

NOTE to Toyota: In order to prevent this type of "Competition leveling (God! That phrase makes me want to up-chuck), convince Hendrick to run Toyotas.

Note to Forum: That was said in jest (well, about 1/2 jest, anyway).

[loco4pablo]

NASCAR should lay off Toyota.... Let them enjoy thier moment in the sun. because when Honda comes....lights out

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by loco4pablo

NASCAR should lay off Toyota.... Let them enjoy thier moment in the sun. because when Honda comes....lights out

for the Big 3.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Originally Posted by loco4pablo
NASCAR should lay off Toyota.... Let them enjoy thier moment in the sun. because when Honda comes....lights outfor the Big 3.

Who was it, exactly, who put the big "FOR SALE" sign on America?