[Phils20]

I thought this was such a great read by David Poole, I'm just gonna paste it.

Tuesday, July 15, 2008

No room for selective enforcement


Saturday night, just before the LifeLock.com 400 at Chicagoland Speedway, a NASCAR official stood in the way of J.J. Yeley's No. 96 Toyota preventing him from joining the field for the start of the race.

As the field was taking its pace laps, Yeley was allowed to join the back of the pack. But just after the green, the team was ordered to bring the car in for a stop-and-go penalty. Then, on its first pit stop, the team got a speeding penalty.

The word from NASCAR, as the race was starting, was that Yeley's team had made a suspicious switch of the container holding Yeley's drinking water. One of the old stock-car tricks in the books is to put lead inside a water container to be used when the car is going through inspection. Once the car is weighed and cleared, the real water bottle is put in and the car is a little bit lighter.

NASCAR apparently thought Yeley's team was up to something like that. So NASCAR showed the Hall of Fame team who was boss. It applied the kind of "justice" that some people still think is colorful, if a bit heavy-handed.

The problem was, Yeley's team wasn't "up" to much of anything. Somebody changed the water container after inspection because they wanted the water Yeley would drink to actually be cold -- or at least cool -- during the race.

Now if the NASCAR procedure is for an official to be there for any such switch so he or she can be sure there's no hanky-panky, and if the team made the switch without an official present, the team was wrong. Procedures should be followed. But procedures also should have penalties associated with them, and those penalties should be such that it's not about NASCAR officials acting on some punitive whim.

At Infineon, another race team changed an engine after a practice and then told NASCAR it had done so. Part of the single-engine per event rule is that the team tells NASCAR first, then NASCAR looks to make sure the engine being changed actually has a problem and isn't just one the team doesn't like having in its car.

Again, if the team violated the procedure it deserves to be sanctioned for that. Maybe it loses practice time at the next race. Or maybe it's penalized a lap or two at the start of the race. Whatever, but the penalty should be set forth in simple terms.

What actually happened, though, was that NASCAR officials were angered by that team's temerity. So after the race at Infineon, that team was the "random" team selected for postrace inspection. (After each race, the top five plus one team chosen at "random" go through postrace teardown.)

After the next race at Loudon, oddly, the same team was the postrace "random" pick. And again, after the race at Daytona, the same team got picked again by "random."

NASCAR showed them, right?

Well yeah, but is that right and is that fair? Is that the way things should be officiated? I don't think so.

There's a scene in "Days of Thunder" where the man playing the Bill France character tells rival car owners about an inspection process on shipping docks where produce is allowed to rot before inspectors who would clear it ever even look at it. The stuff never failed inspection, it was just ruined before anybody ever touched it. The owners in the movie were being warned that's the kind of treatment they might get if they didn't toe the line.

It's common for a team that somehow feels it has somehow crossed NASCAR to fear that it's going to get a handful of speeding penalties in a subsequent race. That's not officiating, that intimidating. And it has no room in a truly professional sport.

[Bob Tanner]

I guess that, except for his silly adoration of The Chosen 35 Rule, maybe David has returned to us and has returned from "The Dark Side?"

You can bet your bippy (Old Laugh In term there) that a HMS car would have never been held as they did Yeley's HOF car. At least not a HMS car with Junior, Johnson or Jeffie-Pooh in it.

But then, once more NA__AR proves that "Selective Rule Enforcement" is merely business as usual.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

You can bet your bippy (Old Laugh In term there) that a HMS car would have never been held as they did Yeley's HOF car. At least not a HMS car with Junior, Johnson or Jeffie-Pooh in it.

Case in point Bob.... The Daytona 500 that Knaus was ousted from and Johnson still ended up winnin... HOF made a mistake and got penalized driver and owners points, while Hendrick recieved nothin for blatant cheatin, but, forgive me... we all know there is no favortism in NA$CAR

[3fanforever]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

You can bet your bippy (Old Laugh In term there) that a HMS car would have never been held as they did Yeley's HOF car. At least not a HMS car with Junior, Johnson or Jeffie-Pooh in it.

This year, I think you can add a certain JGR car to that list of Dark Side drivers too.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by 3fanforever

This year, I think you can add a certain JGR car to that list of Dark Side drivers too.

I assume (sorry 'bout that) that you're talking Kyle. When has his team gotten by with cheating this season? I must be having a brain fart; I don't recall. I'm drawing a blank but I might have missed it, too.

[3fanforever]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I assume (sorry 'bout that) that you're talking Kyle. When has his team gotten by with cheating this season? I must be having a brain fart; I don't recall. I'm drawing a blank but I might have missed it, too.

I wasn't implying he's been cheating. I was commenting on how certain drivers and teams are given free reign to do whatever they want when it suits NASCAR's purposes. That's been the case with Junior, Gordon and Jimmy boy in the past, and this year it's Kyle Busch. That's all. That's why I said you could include him with those other 3.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by 3fanforever

I wasn't implying he's been cheating. I was commenting on how certain drivers and teams are given free reign to do whatever they want when it suits NASCAR's purposes. That's been the case with Junior, Gordon and Jimmy boy in the past, and this year it's Kyle Busch. That's all. That's why I said you could include him with those other 3.

OK. I see. However, I'm still in the dark as to how the above fits Kyle. Possibly I see his aggressive driving as just good, hard, driving to win racing and you see it another?

Maybe, like almost all good and bad, it's in the eye of the beholder?

[Mindwarp]

Originally Posted by 3fanforever

I wasn't implying he's been cheating. I was commenting on how certain drivers and teams are given free reign to do whatever they want when it suits NASCAR's purposes. That's been the case with Junior, Gordon and Jimmy boy in the past, and this year it's Kyle Busch. That's all. That's why I said you could include him with those other 3.

Could you give an example for this year?

[3fanforever]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

OK. I see. However, I'm still in the dark as to how the above fits Kyle. Possibly I see his aggressive driving as just good, hard, driving to win racing and you see it another?

No, I don't see it another way, because I agree with you on that. I've said so more than once. I'm just saying that right now, Brian France and NASCAR love Kyle Busch. He's good for business, and that's the bottom line with them. As long as he's winning, the fans are buying his stuff and showing up at the tracks to cheer him or boo him, and you and I are watching the races on TV just to see what he's gonna do next, then NASCAR's mysterious rule book gets a little dusty. I hope that explains what I'm trying to say better, Bob.

And...I'm not saying Kyle or his team have done anything wrong, or broken any rules, because I have no evidence of that at all, nor do I suspect that. I'm satisfied right now giving him the benefit of the doubt and attributing his run to talent and luck.

Originally Posted by Mindwarp

Could you give an example for this year?

Answered in the post above.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by 3fanforever

No, I don't see it another way, because I agree with you on that. I've said so more than once. I'm just saying that right now, Brian France and NASCAR love Kyle Busch. He's good for business, and that's the bottom line with them. As long as he's winning, the fans are buying his stuff and showing up at the tracks to cheer him or boo him, and you and I are watching the races on TV just to see what he's gonna do next, then NASCAR's mysterious rule book gets a little dusty. I hope that explains what I'm trying to say better, Bob.

And...I'm not saying Kyle or his team have done anything wrong, or broken any rules, because I have no evidence of that at all, nor do I suspect that. I'm satisfied right now giving him the benefit of the doubt and attributing his run to talent and luck.


Answered in the post above.

OK. NOW I [finally] understand. I have to agree but I don't personally see it as a negative, as long as Brian Z & Co. don't start showing preference or bending rules for the sake of keeping Shrub on his winning streak.

I think that Brian has brought a lot of press attention to NA__AR this season and his driving style has caused a lot of controversy, which in show biz, ain't all bad. I wouldn't say they "like Kyle" as much as I'd say that they like the money and attention he brings to the sport this season.

BUT... When they start showing the partiality they have shown with HMS, for example, I'll turn on NA__AR like a snake and scream to the heavens.

Hint: Before any of you ask, "Give me an example of how NA__AR has favored Hendrick!" go back and read some of the archived posts. Just search for Hendrick and you'll find ample examples of perceived bias.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Hint: Before any of you ask, "Give me an example of how NA__AR has favored Hendrick!" go back and read some of the archived posts. Just search for Hendrick and you'll find ample examples of perceived bias.

Bob, "perceived" would mean in your slanted view so to speak, I think a conviction wasn't "perceived".

[3fanforever]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

BUT... When they start showing the partiality they have shown with HMS, for example, I'll turn on NA__AR like a snake and scream to the heavens.

That's what I'm skeptical about and here's why. NASCAR made that bed years ago by not enforcing the rules with any consistency. What was good for the goose was not always good for the gander. This got so bad last year, the fans finally started turning on them. So they did an about face this year. Well, for me, it's gonna take more than half a year to convince me they're honest about it, and are going to treat everybody, including Junior and Gordon and Johnson and Kyle Busch and J.J. Yeley the same. Right now, I don't trust anything that comes out of our boy lollipops mouth. And the situations mentioned in Poole's article don't help me regain my trust or my confidence in NASCAR.

Whew, that's about all I got on this.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by 3fanforever

That's what I'm skeptical about and here's why. NASCAR made that bed years ago by not enforcing the rules with any consistency. What was good for the goose was not always good for the gander. This got so bad last year, the fans finally started turning on them. So they did an about face this year. Well, for me, it's gonna take more than half a year to convince me they're honest about it, and are going to treat everybody, including Junior and Gordon and Johnson and Kyle Busch and J.J. Yeley the same. Right now, I don't trust anything that comes out of our boy lollipops mouth. And the situations mentioned in Poole's article don't help me regain my trust or my confidence in NASCAR.

Whew, that's about all I got on this.

We're on the same page. I'm with you.

For example, last season they kept Johnny Benson out of a CTS race for a rules infraction (I forget what he did but... He was bounced.

This season, in (I believe) two of the first three Busch East races NASCAR took the win away from the race winner for a rule infraction.

This season Edwards was caught with a oil cooler infraction after a win but he kept it. NA__AR stock reasoning: "The fans deserve to know the guy who goes to Victory Lane will be the winner."

My personal interpretation of this statement is "If you ain't a Cup fan, or pay to attend Cup races, you are valued just a little more than monkey spit to us."

Or, if you please, NA--AR's famous selective rule enforcement..

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Bob, "perceived" would mean in your slanted view so to speak, I think a conviction wasn't "perceived".

It apparently was to Slick (bless his heart).

I was referring to The Felon's (bless his heart) being allowed to break the rules with less than a <wink>, starting with the 1987 debacle. Then it just blossomed from there. I wasn't referring to his conviction and his miraculous cancer cure. But, your above is a sound statement.

[PenelopePitStop]

Wait a minute! Wait a minute!

The driver's drinking bottle is in the car during inspection? They fill it with lead for inspection then replace it with water for the race?



I've heard some crazy things in my day ... this is one of them.

If the water bottle is "suspicious", why don't the inspectors look at what's in the bottle during inspection?

What if the water bottle is full of water during inspection, but the driver downs it during the pace laps, is that an infraction? What if they have a weighted bottle filled with water for inspection, then switch to an unweighted bottle that looks the same?

This is just goofy!


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