[simple simon]

NASCAR just isnt what it used to be .... lets just do a little checking

National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR)

NA - National Association ..... we now have International Drivers (JPM) -- International Cars (Toyota) -- International Tracks (Twin Rings)

SC - Stock Car ....... these cars are about as far from 'stock' as you can get .. not to mention the fact that they also now race pickup trucks

AR - Auto Racing ....... this is not the auto racing i remember growing up to love ...... 'Lucky Dog' .. what the hell is that

[stroker crank]

Originally Posted by simple simon

NASCAR just isnt what it used to be .... lets just do a little checking

National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR)

NA - National Association ..... we now have International Drivers (JPM) -- International Cars (Toyota) -- International Tracks (Twin Rings)

SC - Stock Car ....... these cars are about as far from 'stock' as you can get .. not to mention the fact that they also now race pickup trucks

AR - Auto Racing ....... this is not the auto racing i remember growing up to love ...... 'Lucky Dog' .. what the hell is that

This is what NASCAR's constant rule meddling and over commercialization has brought us. Team innovation and creativity have been replaced with gimmicks like lucky dog awards and provisional starting spots.

[LSC9901]

In no way will I defend the "Lucky Dog" fiasco because I hate it but ..... it was brought about because of safety issues. Some drivers could not deal with the gentleman's agreement that there would be no racing back to the yellow flag. Consequently NASCAR stepped in and made a foolish rule.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by simple simon

NASCAR just isnt what it used to be .... lets just do a little checking

National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR)

NA - National Association ..... we now have International Drivers (JPM) -- International Cars (Toyota) -- International Tracks (Twin Rings)

SC - Stock Car ....... these cars are about as far from 'stock' as you can get .. not to mention the fact that they also now race pickup trucks

AR - Auto Racing ....... this is not the auto racing i remember growing up to love ...... 'Lucky Dog' .. what the hell is that

You forgot the change in the driver's creedo: As Junior Johnson said, "I always raced to win and figured the championship'd take care of itself."

To quote Carl Edwards, "I hate second place but it's a good points day."

[Measure]

Do you want them to race actual stock models fresh off the assembly line, meant for consumer use? Methinks the speeds wouldn't be as awesome.

[wingkey1]

Yet to this day the down to basic element continues to exist and prompt/service/provide enjoyment for those who can truly understand and appreciate it fully:

There are human beings operating extaordinary equipment applying themselves to their individual and collective fullest, to top one another.

It's a beautiful and inspiring thing. And those who cannot or will not fully grasp will spend much time and words on the - "yeah but how about/how can ya ignore -----".

Oh well.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by Measure

Do you want them to race actual stock models fresh off the assembly line, meant for consumer use?

more or less .... yes
remember .... they are the ones that inserted the SC .. not me

Originally Posted by wingkey1

There are human beings operating extaordinary equipment applying themselves to their individual and collective fullest, to top one another.

sorry but i dont buy that for a second

this happens in several walks of life everyday .... and yet many could stand for improvement .... is it too much for me to question what passes for NASCAR these days ?

you i suppose are perfectly fine with the product they spew out these days ? ..... sorry wing ... but i always pegged you as more then just a sheep

[LSC9901]

I find the topic of this thread to be a statement that can well fit just about anything you want it to fit. NASCAR most certainly isn't what it used to be. Then again the job that I started in 1973 is a far cry from the one I left a few years ago. Those that stand still get left in the dust.

Would racing a stock car be viable ? Probably not. Especially since we've gone to the opposite extreme. They'd still be competitive with one another but lets get real ... none of us want to see a 2008 Chevy, Ford, Toyota or Dodge reeling around Daytona at a top speed of 115 MPH. A lot of the fan base would move onto the next big deal.

I believe it would be interesting to see the sheet metal return to a more stock state. I have no problem with flaps and such that provide safety for the driver but all the aero items added that are not stock can go as far as I'm concerned.

Nope NASCAR isn't what it once was but PBA Bowling isn't what it was 30 years ago either. As much as I enjoy opinions this subject and our opinions will probably never, ever cross paths again.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Measure

Do you want them to race actual stock models fresh off the assembly line, meant for consumer use? Methinks the speeds wouldn't be as awesome.

Stock appearing sheet metal meeting factory templates.

P.S. 10-4 on the speeds. You do NOT have to have high speeds to have good racing. In fact, there is a point where as the speed goes up, the quality of the racing actually goes down.

That's why you don't have side-by-side runs for the speed record at Bonneville. Which, come to think about it, is p[robably a good reason why you don't have 40,000 people in the seats watching the Bonneville speed runs?

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Stock appearing sheet metal meeting factory templates.

P.S. 10-4 on the speeds. You do NOT have to have high speeds to have good racing. In fact, there is a point where as the speed goes up, the quality of the racing actually goes down.

That's why you don't have side-by-side runs for the speed record at Bonneville.

They can't really go fender-to-fender for position at high-speeds and be competetive, for those that know what I'm gettin at.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Quality88

They can't really go fender-to-fender for position at high-speeds and be competetive, for those that know what I'm gettin at.

It's no surprise that you'd get it, Dustin.
Speed is good only to a point. Then it just gets in the way of the racing.

Can you imagine how boring the racing at Bristol would be if they found some way to turn 180 MPH at that track? What makes Bristol so exciting is the slower speeds they turn while running close together (Or it did before they turned Bristol to "Las Vegas in the Alleghenys" Maybe the racing will improve as the new track ages?).

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

It's no surprise that you'd get it, Dustin.
Speed is good only to a point. Then it just gets in the way of the racing.

Can you imagine how boring the racing at Bristol would be if they found some way to turn 180 MPH at that track? What makes Bristol so exciting is the slower speeds they turn while running close together (Or it did before they turned Bristol to "Las Vegas in the Alleghenys" Maybe the racing will improve as the new track ages?).

I knew you would understand what I was sayin. The track needs to get a few races on it with some hardcore weather for some seasonin.... it'll be okay.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by Measure

Methinks the speeds wouldn't be as awesome.

i think this thread has gotten too much about speed .... personally i find racing at my local track awesome ..... and they rarely top 100 mph

Originally Posted by wingkey1

There are human beings operating extaordinary equipment applying themselves to their individual and collective fullest, to top one another.

and i submit to you that they arent supposed to be driving "extrodinary equipment ..... they arent supposed to be driving technologically advanced cyborg styled crap wagons with Chevy stickers to try and fool viewers .... they are supposed to be driving something that at least slightly resembles an actual Chevy

[clutch]

Originally Posted by simple simon

NASCAR just isnt what it used to be .... lets just do a little checking

National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR)

NA - National Association ..... we now have International Drivers (JPM) -- International Cars (Toyota) -- International Tracks (Twin Rings)

Smon I have issues with your post .....but for now I believe that the organization is still based in the USA....no?
...so what does that have to do with Intl drivers or cars?

...Gee Nascar may even have International fans.....

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by clutch

....but for now I believe that the organization is still based in the USA....no?

yes .... but to me its like claiming Chevy's (or any of the big 3 auto's) are all American when so many of their parts come from other countries

...Gee Nascar may even have International fans.....

now that's just an outright lie ..... we all know rednecks can only be found in America