[LSC9901]

Last Wednesday I attended a press conference that was the middle stanza of an unexpectedly depressing week, a seven-day stretch so bummed out that not even wins by golden boys Joey Logano and Dale Earnhardt Junior could wash the blahs away. The Petty family gathered the media to announce that they had sold a majority stake in their team to a group of thousand-dollar suit-wearing capitalists known as Boston Ventures.
Two days earlier, former NASCAR tech inspector Mauricia Grant filed a $225 million harassment lawsuit, a document that contains more racy—and racial—content than a Tarantino movie. Two days later, NASCAR president Mike Helton held a "come to Jesus" meeting (NASCAR's words, not mine) with drivers to tell them to tone down their whining. One day after that league chairman Brian France showed up to blast Grant publicly.

ESPN - ESPN The Magazine

[Bob Tanner]

I don't normally regard the hacks at ABC/Disney/ESPN exceptionally creditable. I've seen them put out a lot of hype, puff stories and, a couple times, just plain disinformation.

An example of some of the absolute crap they put out is as follows:
ESPN - NASCAR fans' palates turning more sophisticated, at least in Sonoma - Racing

However, this piece tells a definite [very sad] story about auto racing at its highest levels, if one takes the time to analyze the story as written.

Sometimes this brave, new world we've entered really sucks.

[DOF_power]

But then again RFR and/or GEM don't seem to be doing bad.

Still all the manufacturers seem to have a spearhead team, so is it anything left for the second and third classes ?!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

But then again RFR and/or GEM don't seem to be doing bad.

Still all the manufacturers seem to have a spearhead team, so is it anything left for the second and third classes ?!

Very, very little.

I know many here are much more atuned to this new, technology-driven, obscene sponsor cost driven NASCAR than I. But, when the Robby Gordon's, Bob Jenkin's, Barry Visser's, James Finches and the Wood Brothers are chased out of NA__AR to join the Bud Moore's, Junie Donlevey's, Stavola Brothers and the Bobby Allison's, we, the race fans, will be the loser.

[LSC9901]

What I found to be interesting was that Richard admitted that they failed to keep up with the technology because during their hey day they were winning. I guess they just figured it wouldn't end. It will be interesting to see what the influx of new money will do. Kyle doesn't seem to happy with the change, but I'm also convinced that he is no longer an important cog in the wheel. I suspect he won't be "Just a driver" for PE a whole lot longer.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

What I found to be interesting was that Richard admitted that they failed to keep up with the technology because during their hey day they were winning. .

There's that term again, which keeps popping up in our conversations like a brother-in-law who asks to stay with you "for a week or so," and ends up living with you.

So far I can't see how this preoccupation with with technology has increased the overall quality of racing in NA__AR. It seems only to be a debating point for those who seem to think technology is the be all and end all to motorsports.

No. I don't want to go back to Flathead engines, truck tires and lap belts. I'd just like to see the sport revert to a form of motor sports the AVERAGE guy could relate to. Maybe THAT would have taken the pressure off the Petty's and others to NOT have to keep up with the insane pace of technology?

[LSC9901]

How about looking at it from the other side of the fence. While you may be correct in saying that:

I can't see how this preoccupation with with technology has increased the overall quality of racing in NA__AR. It seems only to be a debating point for those who seem to think technology is the be all and end all to motorsports.

Is it possible that the technology gains by the majority don't show but that the lack of technological gains shows on groups such as PE ??

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

How about looking at it from the other side of the fence. While you may be correct in saying that: Is it possible that the technology gains by the majority don't show but that the lack of technological gains shows on groups such as PE ??

Possibly. My contention is that you have technology, and then you have TECHNOLOGY. NA__AR allowing the cars to spiral downward from being stock appearing cars with components available as after market items, to specially-built race cars which have components specially designed and hand produced by specialists in the respective fields, has brought us to where we are today.

It isn't wrong, nor is it right. It's just the way things have progressed. There are some who think this increase in technology is probably the greatest thing to happen to stock car racing since Dale Earnhardt Sr. I, for one, dislike it to a degree you would find surprising and/or shocking.

Colour me curmudgeon.

[kcoruol]

This thread is all over the place;
sale of Petty enterprises
beer vs wine
technology vs driving mechanics
Nascar scandals

OK Sale of Petty Enterprises; It'll be Petty Enterprises in name only.

Beer vs Wine; Have you seen the price of NASCAR tickets, if you drink beer you probably can't afford the tickets. Besides California is like France everybody drinks wine. IMHO Washington and Virginia make much better wine than California or France.

Technology vs Driving Mechanics; Soon we'll see driverless races. A computer will anaylze everything from down force, to track temperature to humidity and calculate the best way to win a race. It'll all be done by a computer that tells the car what to do.

Nascar scandals; Good or bad NASCAR needs the headlines, the rest is gravy.

[LSC9901]

I'd agree with your assessment of technology Bob but it is and was inevitable. I'd love to see a stock car race but even the beginnings of NASCAR were not stock. A pipe dream at best. If you didn't have issues like this to deal with Bob, you wouldn't be a curmudgeon !!!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I'd agree with your assessment of technology Bob but it is and was inevitable. I'd love to see a stock car race but even the beginnings of NASCAR were not stock. A pipe dream at best. If you didn't have issues like this to deal with Bob, you wouldn't be a curmudgeon !!!

Just one more statement and I'll leave it alone (for now, but I WILL continue to complain).

Many read my offerings as though I have this dream about stock cars. I don't say that. I'll quote myself from above when I said:
"NA__AR allowing the cars to spiral downward from being stock appearing cars with components available as after market items"

I've never been under any delusion that the cars were "stock." I've spent too much time in the pits to think that. But if they call them "stock car races," then, darn it, let's at least make a pretense of appearing "stock."

I rest my case.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Just one more statement and I'll leave it alone (for now, but I WILL continue to complain).

Many read my offerings as though I have this dream about stock cars. I don't say that. I'll quote myself from above when I said:
"NA__AR allowing the cars to spiral downward from being stock appearing cars with components available as after market items"

I've never been under any delusion that the cars were "stock." I've spent too much time in the pits to think that. But if they call them "stock car races," then, darn it, let's at least make a pretense of appearing "stock."

I rest my case.

I know you said you'd leave this topic alone but I just want to pick your noggin a bit more. I understand the "stock appearing" car but, and I hesitate to say this, we're only talking sheet metal here. I know aerodynamics plays its role its racing but will that return it to what you'd be content with ? Now for the after market components .... are we talking what you and I and buy from NAPA type stores or will the after market purchases be from racing related companies ?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I know you said you'd leave this topic alone but I just want to pick your noggin a bit more. I understand the "stock appearing" car but, and I hesitate to say this, we're only talking sheet metal here. I know aerodynamics plays its role its racing but will that return it to what you'd be content with ? Now for the after market components .... are we talking what you and I and buy from NAPA type stores or will the after market purchases be from racing related companies ?

IF you go back to STOCK factory body templates (with a very few certain considerations made for safety, tire clearance, etc.) the aerodynamics is back in the hands of the factories, not the engineers in the shops. The aerodynamics will be reasonable effects available to the not-racing buyer. All this would have the affect of making the cars more dirty (as they were in the 60's and 70's and early 80's), slowing them up, thus making the racing totally different from what we see today.

Duck's posted solution would make me very, very happy. But, the genie's out of the bottle now and we'll never get him back.

I know that this concept absolutely drives the fans, who are enamored with modern racing technology, right up a wall. My view of what racing could be is an absolute anachronism. So be it. All I can say is that I liked the product much better before the team engineers started calling the shots.

There are "after market" performance companies which product and sell serious competition related parts and items necessary for the track. These aren't seen at O'Reilly's, NAPA or CarQuest. Duck is much more knowledgeable about these than I.

[DOF_power]

What do you mean by dirty ?!

Cars today are very sensitive to dirty air/have loss of downforce and produce dirty air/wake turbulence and the last thing needed would be more dirty air.

The cars of the 60s/70s produced less downforce and equally important they (the chassis) weren't so dependent on downforce (for equilibrium).

[clutch]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Just one more statement and I'll leave it alone (for now, but I WILL continue to complain).

Many read my offerings as though I have this dream about stock cars. I don't say that. I'll quote myself from above when I said:
"NA__AR allowing the cars to spiral downward from being stock appearing cars with components available as after market items"

I've never been under any delusion that the cars were "stock." I've spent too much time in the pits to think that. But if they call them "stock car races," then, darn it, let's at least make a pretense of appearing "stock."

I rest my case.

to be honest Bob, this is the first time that I've heard the Stock appearing bit.

Lets face it things have evolved since the 50's.........if you want stock cars...and great racing ...over 150mph, then I reckon a few of you will be disappointed. STOCK CARS are NOT race cars.....I guess I just dont get it. Sometimes its OK for things to change and still have references to what was........without being what was.....if you get that