[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I suspect they would have no choice but to "Embrace" the challenge !!!

Yeah. One of the dufooses masquerading as a presidential candidate says he's all about "Change."

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Yeah. One of the dufooses masquerading as a presidential candidate says he's all about "Change."

Speaking of political candidates, here is a cute joke I recently received.

A 70-year-old Texas Rancher got his hand caught in a gate while working cattle. He wrapped the hand in his bandana and drove his pickup to the doctor. While suturing the laceration, the doctor asked the old man about (insert name) being in the White House.

The old Texan said, "Well, ya know, (candidate "X") is a 'Post Turtle.'"

Not knowing what the old man meant, the doctor asked what a Post Turtle was.

The old man looked at him and drawled, "When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a Post Turtle."

The old man saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain:

"You know he didn't get there by himself, he doesn't belong there, he can't get anything done while he's up there, and you just want to help the poor dummy get down."

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Speaking of political candidates, here is a cute joke I recently received.

A 70-year-old Texas Rancher got his hand caught in a gate while working cattle. He wrapped the hand in his bandana and drove his pickup to the doctor. While suturing the laceration, the doctor asked the old man about (insert name) being in the White House.

The old Texan said, "Well, ya know, (candidate "X") is a 'Post Turtle.'"

Not knowing what the old man meant, the doctor asked what a Post Turtle was.

The old man looked at him and drawled, "When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a Post Turtle."

The old man saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain:

"You know he didn't get there by himself, he doesn't belong there, he can't get anything done while he's up there, and you just want to help the poor dummy get down."

Good one. However, leave us not go down this particular path. Trust Me. As irritating and as irrascable as I am on my good days here, you haven't really seen me really cut loose, rant, rave and just generally drive even cloistered nuns to homicidal thoughts, until the subject gets around to the state of politics and our Imperial government and its supposed "leaders." Believe it or not but I can be quite opinionated.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Good one. However, leave us not go down this particular path. Trust Me. As irritating and as irrascable as I am on my good days here, you haven't really seen me really cut loose, rant, rave and just generally drive even cloistered nuns to homicidal thoughts, until the subject gets around to the state of politics and our Imperial government and its supposed "leaders." Believe it or not but I can be quite opinionated.

Never would have guessed that Bob, but trust me, I will not go down the political path. I edited that joke so as to not show any favoritism to any one politician. No more shall I say other than in my opinion, the story covers every politician.

[Bette]

Very interesting thread.
There simply isnt enough information to know whether or not anything in the woman's claims are valid. She most certainly hit all the bases. Like others, I am inclined to believe it is much ado about nothing.
BUT there is nothing funny about harassment ladies and gentlemen, be it sexual, color, nationality or what have you.
Its hard for the men to believe, but sexual harassment is terribly degrading to a woman.
Having said that, I too have worked with mostly males all of my working life. I never ran into problems of any degree what was described here.
I have seen guys harassed too for various reasons. That wasnt pretty either.
The service is one of the worst places for a woman to work.
And Mr. Tanner your line about her being in the work place she chose to be made me see red for a minute.

Duckie, you are in the racing business. Is this sort of thing common at the tracks?

[Team Yates]

Originally Posted by jks812

I didn't say she was telling the truth. Just that I wouldn't say anything about her until it was discovered if she was telling the truth or not. But believe me, when women say this crap and it ends up not being true, that really pisses me off. People like that is the reason my daughter wasn't believed.
I am a firm believer that when a female does this and it proves that she's lying, she should be sent to jail.

It really pisses me off too!! Everything in life is tough enough sometimes, but then when this kind of thing goes down, I just want to go slap the $#!! out of that person!! This kind of behavior certainly doesn't help the real victims!! And because it happens on a "regular" basis, nobody believes anybodies story, "oh it's just another person trying to get a pay out." And most unfortunately theres alot of that happening daily!! I hope that it isn't another case like that as in so far as that it adds another brick to the wall. In the long run, all it does is hurt everybody in many more capacities.

[SpaceCadet]

Ok, here's a scenario. A young woman chooses a difficult and dangerous field of employment, one greatly male dominated. She is at the top of her training class. Some of her male counterparts start to drop a few ugly names. She lets it go because she just figures they're jerks and who cares what their problem is. As she gets better at her job, more insults start to fly, very sexist, go for the jugular type comments. She finally goes to her supervisor. He says to get over herself and suck it up. She does. It gets worse. She goes back to her supervisor again. He gets mad, tells her to quit being a baby. She sucks it up again. This is not the last time she tries to get action taken because the insults are now becoming threats. She and several of her co-workers are transferred overseas. The insults and threats become blatant now. And then one morning she is found beaten to a pulp, sexually assualted, unconscious and left for dead. Upon regaining consciousness she is told there are no women at this location to perform an exam, and there were no rape kits on the scene anyway. So they would not be looking for the perpetrator. She was relocated to a hospital, who's physicians sent word to her employer that they better follow up on this because her injuries were pretty nasty. So now, before you read on, was she lying? It's her word against the supervisor's that she tried to tell him what was going on. There's lots more to the story, but the gist of it is that she tried to report it many times and was told to suck it up. Her career was over, she cannot have children, she contracted the HP virus which became Stage 1 cancer. She was told that she had a choice of going back to the same location when she recovered, or losing her job. She was told that discrimination did not exist in this organization and to keep her mouth shut if she knew what was good for her. So gentlemen, why do you automatically assume the worst of the woman? What difference does it make if she chose a certain profession or not? Do you see how fast things can get really ugly if these claims are not taken seriously? If she is lying, she should hang. Lethal injection would be too easy for her. If she is not, the issue must be taken as far as she can take it.

BTW, that's a true story of which I have first hand knowledge, not hearsay and there's lots more to it. Gentlemen, you cannot put yourselves in a woman's place, or feel the frustration when you are not taken seriously in these matters. For that reason, NASCAR or anyone else must take this woman's and every woman's complaints very seriously because what if she's telling the truth? Wouldn't you rather err on that side than the other? The penalties for lying in these matters should be much greater however. Due to the damage and destruction to the credibility of every woman (or man) who is being discriminated against for real, the liars should face some mighty large jail time. Or the death penalty - that would work for me. Sorry so long - but this point needs to hit home. Statistically speeking, I don't know what the percentage is for winning/losing these types of case. But statistics really don't mean anything until you become one, right? This young woman never thought a few slanderous comments would turn into something so ugly that it nearly cost her her life. Think about it.

[Racer Duck]

SC, I think I can speak for most of the "guys" who've responded to this thread.

First, I believe we'd be the first to "hang" anyone who would do what you described. That's a terrible situation. This person whose story you cited only did one thing wrong: she stopped at her supervisor.

Next, we are all weary of these types of lawsuits. Especially when there's astronomical damages requested. That makes us suspect a "Chicken Little" version of the truth. The best thing that could happen to thwart this type of thing is Tort reform: looser pays. Yes, it'll result in some worthwhile cases not coming to light, but it'll also make people think before they yell "Fire" AND will result in fewer innocents paying for someone else's allegations...

Now, that in no way means we think nothing happened. Obviously something did happen. The question is ''What?" Is this a case of bruised feelings or sexual harrassment? Is it childish pranks or discrimination? Hopefully, our justice system will ferrett out the truth and rule appropriately. That is our hope.

Lastly, we understand how sensitive some people are who are close to similar situations. But we also understand that other people may not be sensitized to it at all. You, obviously have a "raw nerve" that's been rubbed by this case. And we understand. But because you have pre-judged according to your experience, understand that we have also. It'll be best that, instead of telling stories back and forth illustrating different sides of this issue, we look for the truth in this case and make our judgements based only on the truth of the case. Right now, only a few people know that truth: those involved (and they may not even agree about what actually happened... )

I, personally, look forward to the discovery of that truth and prosecution of the wrong-doer(s).

[SpaceCadet]

Thanks, RD, for your response, and I firmly believe, as you do, that the "guys" you're speaking for, are indeed the good ones.

I'm concerned that the harm that has been done by the women who "cry wolf" will soon be irreversible if it doesn't stop. Becoming immune to these claims as a whole spells doom for those who have been truly victimized.

I am impressed that this thread has been carried out without yelling and screaming or any great escalation of tempers. It's a testament to the intelligence, compassion and yes, even humor of the members of this forum. If more people were like us redneck, toothless racing fans, we might not need to be having discussions like this one. I think we are a darn fine bunch.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Thanks, RD, for your response, and I firmly believe, as you do, that the "guys" you're speaking for, are indeed the good ones.

I'm concerned that the harm that has been done by the women who "cry wolf" will soon be irreversible if it doesn't stop. Becoming immune to these claims as a whole spells doom for those who have been truly victimized.

I am impressed that this thread has been carried out without yelling and screaming or any great escalation of tempers. It's a testament to the intelligence, compassion and yes, even humor of the members of this forum. If more people were like us redneck, toothless racing fans, we might not need to be having discussions like this one. I think we are a darn fine bunch.

Wait a minute. I know plenty of NASCAR fans who have a tooth

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Wait a minute. I know plenty of NASCAR fans who have a tooth

I got one! I keep it under my pillow for... uh ...souvenir.

[Bette]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

SC, I think I can speak for most of the "guys" who've responded to this thread.

First, I believe we'd be the first to "hang" anyone who would do what you described. That's a terrible situation. This person whose story you cited only did one thing wrong: she stopped at her supervisor.

Next, we are all weary of these types of lawsuits. Especially when there's astronomical damages requested. That makes us suspect a "Chicken Little" version of the truth. The best thing that could happen to thwart this type of thing is Tort reform: looser pays. Yes, it'll result in some worthwhile cases not coming to light, but it'll also make people think before they yell "Fire" AND will result in fewer innocents paying for someone else's allegations...

Now, that in no way means we think nothing happened. Obviously something did happen. The question is ''What?" Is this a case of bruised feelings or sexual harrassment? Is it childish pranks or discrimination? Hopefully, our justice system will ferrett out the truth and rule appropriately. That is our hope.

Lastly, we understand how sensitive some people are who are close to similar situations. But we also understand that other people may not be sensitized to it at all. You, obviously have a "raw nerve" that's been rubbed by this case. And we understand. But because you have pre-judged according to your experience, understand that we have also. It'll be best that, instead of telling stories back and forth illustrating different sides of this issue, we look for the truth in this case and make our judgements based only on the truth of the case. Right now, only a few people know that truth: those involved (and they may not even agree about what actually happened... )

I, personally, look forward to the discovery of that truth and prosecution of the wrong-doer(s).

Very very nicely said Racer.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

I'm concerned that the harm that has been done by the women who "cry wolf" will soon be irreversible if it doesn't stop. Becoming immune to these claims as a whole spells doom for those who have been truly victimized.

i realize its on a much smaller scale ... but that statement reminds me of all the car alarms i hear ...... seems whenever i look it is just some person that set off their own alarm so i have mostly become immune to hearing them

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by Bette

Duckie, you are in the racing business. Is this sort of thing common at the tracks?

yes very much so ... just ask Wendell Scott .... and i think it is a bit of what JPM faced last season and i brought it up then ...... it's tough to crack that 'good ol boys' network

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by Bette

Duckie, you are in the racing business. Is this sort of thing common at the tracks?

I'd be interested in the answer to that, too. At the risk of opening up another can of worms, I can only think of four female drivers having raced at our local track. With the exception of one incident which appeared to be a totally unfair call be the race director, I think now it was probably just one of those "heat of the moment" things instead of a gender thing. But honestly, the comments I hear that are negative or sexist in some way about those four female drivers were about the fact that not only were they female, but they totally stunk up the track as drivers. And it was true. With the exception of a few shining moments, they were pretty much in the way and caused pile ups. So "female driver" and "no talent, here comes trouble" pretty much became synonymous with the other drivers and fans. Now, if you're talking about the gal in the little pink car that wins the annual demo derby each year, look out! That chick kicks butt and takes names! You go girl!