[Racer Duck]

I'd been at my daughter's house for the weekend, so watched the Indy 500 there. Though I left immediately after the checkered flag and drove 60 miles home...I got to the big screen about 35 laps into the race. So I missed the entire pre-game activities, Anthem, Invocation, fly-over, green flag and “Boogity...” (I'm particularly happy about that last one )

4 Hours, 25 minutes and 11 seconds later it was all over. Was it worth it? Dunno, but I'm glad I was in my recliner instead of on a hard bench at the track!!! Ya gotta be a masochist to spend that much time planted at a track. 'Course, I noticed many folks weren't feeling much pain...especially those next to the camper that “caught” Mr. Vicker's tire. In the end, Kasey Kahne broke his 52 race winless streak. And Humpy Wheeler is now officially retired .. for the time being....

A Mark Martin story: early in the race a header tube broke on Mark's car. (If you don't know what that is, it's part of the exhaust at the engine.) As a result of that failure, Mark was down on horsepower. His crew chief told him 10 or 15 laps later that he was running the same lap times as the leaders, sometimes faster. Mark thought about that and then said something to the effect that, because he didn't have “all that power”, he was going into the corner deeper (tho a bit slower), not using the brakes as much, and getting back on the gas sooner. Net result, he was turning faster laps than if his engine had been “whole”. A classic case of more is not always better.!

Other driver's troubles included the “loose wheel” problem, but this time on Brian Vicker's car. For a while we thought the Biff was having the same problem (again!), but it turned out to be a missing wheel weight. Then how about both Tony and Denny having RF flats in the closing laps within seconds of each other! And Carl tried a fuel mileage finish and barely made it to the finish line. Gordo was driving a manure wagon all race, but managed to herd it along just fast enough in the final laps to take home a 4th place finish while playing the fuel mileage game. JJ crashed “at his house” but was really never good enough to hold off the rocket ships: Junior, Kasey and Shrub, though Shrub spent more time in mid pack than just about any other car. And was Yeley's spotter on a potty break or something when Junior crashed? Something was certainly wrong there as he didn't seem to see Junior until he was about a car length from him. CRASH!!! Junior was never any good after that, though he did manage a 5th place finish. Shrub said he had the same problem Tony had at Richmond, an alternator not regulating voltage – but he got a caution at just the right time and they installed a new battery and he was good to go to the end of the race. After the race they showed an interesting statistic: none of the race leaders at the hundred mile marks ended up winning! Interesting.

All was not gloom as several drivers posted very good finishes with 2 posting their best ever: David Reutimann had the UPS 'Yota running good all day, in fact on lap 195 he was running fifth and finished 10th!; and Sam Hornish, Jr, seems to have finally figured out these “stock cars” - he showed lots of strength all day, even getting down one lap near the end and coming back with a 13th place. Then there was Bobby Labonte .. quietly going about his business, keeping his car clean and near the front all day - it paid off with an 11th place finish. And the kid, David Ragan, is clicking off those good finishes. This time he was in the Top 5 all day and rolled to a 12th place finish. But the guy I'm most happy about is Matt Kenseth. After his struggles all year, he finally had positive results: 7th place!

Commercials – The Good, Bad, and Ugly! Think I'll start with the later and work towards the front.

• UGLY – have a tie here: the Fast Turtles (Comcast) and Scrapping' Squirrels (State Farm)
• BAD – Sip Stealing (Coke)
• GOOD – Applauding the soldiers coming thru the airport. (Budweiser)

The Junior Saga: Where to begin? At around lap 67 Junior was leading, but lost the lead and starting falling back. Immediately, the announcers (mostly DW) started making excuses for him. Then he started running good again and all was right with the world...for a while.

Then they had that terrible pit stop. And JUNIOR had to get on the horn and direct it 'cause everybody was standing around waiting for the Front Tire Changer to pick up the dropped lug nuts and put them on!!! What was Eury, Jr, doing? It's his job to run the pit stops!!!

And when Junior finally got too close to the wall one too many times he blew the RR tire and came almost to a stop against the wall, before Yeley “gave him a push”. Even with all this, he was able to bring it home in 5th!

I've said this before, but it bears repeating: Junior is not gonna win until they get a leader in the pits. Someone has to take charge. Junior, whether he intended to or not, has intimidated the entire crew and no one, including Eury, Jr., wants to make a decision for fear of being blasted. If you think Junior is under a lot of pressure for not winning, imagine how it is on that crew! 'Tis a shame too, 'cause they seem to have a lot of potential.

[kcoruol]

Kudos to Racer Duck's weekly race Observation thread.

Always the best thread here.

I guess Tony Stewart will be turning down Goodyear's bid to sponsor him next year.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by kcoruol

Kudos to Racer Duck's weekly race Observation thread.

Always the best thread here.

I guess Tony Stewart will be turning down Goodyear's bid to sponsor him next year.

Thanks kcoruol. It's gratifying when your work is appreciated.

[Bob Tanner]

The 4 hours, 25 minutes and 11 seconds paragraph was especially appropriate. I continue to think these 400, 500 and 600-mile races are becoming just too tedious. The races are beginning to be more like NTA basketball games, where the only real competition happens in the last 2-3 minutes of play.

My suggestion: Cut the races to kilometers (.6 of a mile). The World 600 could retain its traditional name yet be only 360 miles in length.

The CTS races are uniformly exciting and much of this is because of their short length (compared to Cup). Short races tend to make the driver stay "up on the wheel" and fight for position every lap.

I think making every race, with the exception of the Daytona 500, held on a track one mile of longer in length could be changed to kilometers.

To those who violently disagree... In a couple weeks we'll have the hideously long and mostly boring Pennsylvania 500 at Pocono. When you wake up from you "NASCAR nap" during that race, tell me again that I'm wrong.

[Lefty Noob]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

The 4 hours, 25 minutes and 11 seconds paragraph was especially appropriate. I continue to think these 400, 500 and 600-mile races are becoming just too tedious. The races are beginning to be more like NTA basketball games, where the only real competition happens in the last 2-3 minutes of play.

My suggestion: Cut the races to kilometers (.6 of a mile). The World 600 could retain its traditional name yet be only 360 miles in length.

The CTS races are uniformly exciting and much of this is because of their short length (compared to Cup). Short races tend to make the driver stay "up on the wheel" and fight for position every lap.

I think making every race, with the exception of the Daytona 500, held on a track one mile of longer in length could be changed to kilometers.

To those who violently disagree... In a couple weeks we'll have the hideously long and mostly boring Pennsylvania 500 at Pocono. When you wake up from you "NASCAR nap" during that race, tell me again that I'm wrong.

I hate to admit that the length was the reason I didn't watch this race. I tuned in about 7:30, about 2 1/2 hours after coverage began (although I realize pre-race would have eaten up a lot of that) and saw they weren't even 200 laps in. Doing some quick math and realizing what a late night that would've been, I said "the heck with it" and changed the channel.

As a casual fan, I dislike dedicating more than a couple hours of my life to watching a single race. I must admit I'm a little surprised to see that at least some of the more dedicated fans feel the same way. I can only hope someone from NASCAR reads your suggestion about changing to kms, Bob, and decides it's a good idea, because these races (and this one in particular) are just too damn long for my taste.

[Bob Tanner]

As usual, a great critique, Ducky. I appreciate your calling attention to Reutimann, Labonte and Hornish. I thought Blaney's first 500 miles were exceptional too.

I'm starting to like Hornish. He's another one who doesn't seem to have a grasp (yet) of "Big Picture Racing" and racing for points. Each week he seems to either have a decent finish of wrecks. I like that; it's the sign of driver who tries.

I agree with your commercial assessments, with the excepting I'd put the All State squirrel thing in the REALLY BAD category.

Both my wife and I remarked as to the quality of the returning GI's ad, from A-B. It was especially poignant to me. I was a literal target on a return in 1971 when I came home from 'Nam. Then again when I return at Philly when I was out-processing in 1991. I flew in from Rota with a plane load of Desert Storm soldiers. 180 degree turnaround from '71. I could relate to the looks the soldiers in the ad had. Yeah, it brought a tear to my eye.

Good call on the psychology of the Junior saga. I never considered the intimidation his crew must be under. Way too much stress for me to even consider. That's why they get paid the big bucks, I guess. Better them than me. Good call on your part.

[Racer Duck]

I think there's 2 reasons why the length of the 600 won't be changed any time soon:

1. It's on the same day as the more famous Indy 500 (the "Greatest Spectacle in Racing"), so it has to be "better" and how better than being longer? Remember, one of the mantras continually repeated by the announcers was the "extra" 100 miles and how it 'caused failures not normally seen in "regular" races and thus made the outcome a real crap shoot. In the eyes of NASCAR and the press, that makes this race unique.
2. It's an endurance race. the fragile IndyCars don't run many races of 500 miles, but the tough NASCAR Cup cars do it regularly. In fact, the Indy 500 is the longest race on the 2008 schedule .. the next longest is the Bombardier LearJet 550 (330 miles) at Texas. Even so, this is the "endurance race" on the NASCAR schedule, thus deserving of it's "spot of honor" among American racing events (at least I'm sure that's what NASCAR would have you believe.)

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

I hate to admit that the length was the reason I didn't watch this race. I tuned in about 7:30, about 2 1/2 hours after coverage began (although I realize pre-race would have eaten up a lot of that) and saw they weren't even 200 laps in. Doing some quick math and realizing what a late night that would've been, I said "the heck with it" and changed the channel.

As a casual fan, I dislike dedicating more than a couple hours of my life to watching a single race. I must admit I'm a little surprised to see that at least some of the more dedicated fans feel the same way. I can only hope someone from NASCAR reads your suggestion about changing to kms, Bob, and decides it's a good idea, because these races (and this one in particular) are just too damn long for my taste.

Heck, Lefty, I'm a full-fledged stock car race fan and I dislike wasting a couple hours watching cars just motor around a track, trying to stay out of trouble until the final XX laps, so they can then race. I dislike the fact that the many lead changes the announcers seeming get wet over that happen during this period are changes that happen when a leader pits and another car stays out. Did you know that when you run the numbers the lead changes that happen on the track are out numbered six to one by lead changes in the pits. Talk about thrilling!

I maintain that if NA__AR would give the fans a 200 or 250-mile (250 laps at Dover or 120 laps at Talladega and Pocono), with no more than two required pit stops, the action would be more riveting and constant. One needs to look no farther than the CTS in order to see what shorter races can bring to the table.

Besides, such races would easily fit into the magic three hour TV window. This is the time frame most "Gen X'ers" are used to having their major TV sports fit into.

But I could be wrong and the idea of shortening a sacred race gets a lot of fan's thongs all in a tight little wad.

[Bassdogs]

The thong does ride up after a few hours, but have found that the good old DVR has a soothing effect to both the length but also the commercials and the excess prerace dribble. My complaint about the thong is that no matter what your favorite car number, it always comes out as a "1" on the thong. To address this limitation, have gone to shaving the head and using a sharpie.

Seriously though and acknowledging that we are all entitled to our opinions; expecting all races to fit into some cookie cutter size seems to me to be a bit short sighted. A 600 mile race does place stresses and demands on the driver, crew, and car that is not present in a shorter race, just like the high rpms at other tracks or repeated rpm cycles at a short track. My understanding is that the 600 length came about because they wanted it to be longer than the Indy 500. Regardless, for those who don't want to spend the time to watch it or take the time to prerecord it; just tune to Heide and log on the forum the next day and we'll fill you in on the details. For what its worth, I get real tired of the mile and a half [one after an other after another] that Nascar wants to cram down our throats.

But then this is only an opinion. If you think watching the 600 in a thong is uncomfortable, try mowing the grass.

[wingkey1]

Todays fan does not want 600 miles of racing. Todays fan cannot find enjoyment/entertainment/understanding/(your favorite word/phrase here) in duration. It is an event for the competitor. It requires something different in thinking, planning, spot decisions, etc. than other events in the series. It does not fit into the "immediate gratification" demands of today. It challenges the competitor. It has no place in the imagination or knowledge of the "today" fan.

Watch for those "fans" who would express attraction to the "24 hours at" events, yet cannot grasp 600 (or even 500 miles for some) events. There's perhaps not only an oxymoron, but maybe even a true moron there.

I chose to bring fault to a degree on the media that brings it to the couch potatoe, yet not so much as we would heap fault on the couch potatoe. Or even worse, those who would promote fault to the unknowing - Judas personified.

But what do we know.

[wardfan]

Bob, Kilometers? Are you serious. People were having meltdowns about those "foreign cars - Toyotas" racing, and you want to change to kilometers? Shorten the races, but you got to keep it as miles!!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by wardfan

Bob, Kilometers? Are you serious. People were having meltdowns about those "foreign cars - Toyotas" racing, and you want to change to kilometers? Shorten the races, but you got to keep it as miles!!

I can't recall which one but I believe there is at least one race now that is classified by laps versus miles. Bristol maybe ???

I'm not totally convinced yet that the races are too long. I find that the media is part of the problem and racing itself has become more of a points getting issue versus wins.

Think about this scenario for a second. Start a race and then through some lottery after "X" many laps, determine just how long the race will be. In that case there couldn't be any pre-planning for fuel strategies or 2 tire pit stops. I'm sure there is some downside to that but it gives you something to think about.

[Racer Duck]

Both Bristol and Martinsville races are called "500", but they mean laps, not miles...

[clutch]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Both my wife and I remarked as to the quality of the returning GI's ad, from A-B. It was especially poignant to me. I was a literal target on a return in 1971 when I came home from 'Nam. .

Just a FYI comment for you Bob, but today ....may 28th 2008 (of course we are a day ahead) the New Zealand government officially apologised to NZ Vietnam veterans for the treatment that they recieved on their return.
...long overdue

Full text of the Crown's apology to Vietnam veterans - 28 May 2008 - Vietnam

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wardfan

Bob, Kilometers? Are you serious. People were having meltdowns about those "foreign cars - Toyotas" racing, and you want to change to kilometers? Shorten the races, but you got to keep it as miles!!

Sorry, the precedent has been set. You probably weren't aware. The Phoenix races are measured in Km's. They have been since Phoenix returned to the schedule. (312 laps equal 499.2 Km's) The road races are in Km's. The only road races I know of measured in miles were the first at Linden, NJ and the ones at Riverside (may it rest in peace). I will probably be proved wrong on that but... So be it.

I believe I stated that I wasn't in favor of shortening ALL the races, only those on ovals of a mile or longer in length. Plus some which have traditional or distinctive value... the World 600 and the Daytona 500, for example should remain as is.

Can you, or anyone here, "honestly" say that you find 500 miles at Pocono and California, or even 400 at Michigan or at my hometown track of Indianapolis, absolutely riveting? I can't, and I don't think that I'm alone. Even with long-time race fans.

NASCAR began the 500 mile races when superspeedways of a mile or longer began to be built. They were an oddity, heretofore only done at Indianapolis and a couple of Grand Prix races. NASCAR hyped the Hell out of them. Plus, back then they used real stock cars and those cars were prone to mechanical failure resulting is spectacular wrecks, which put butts in the seats and $ in France's pockets.

My personal feeling is that the majority of today's 400 or 500-mile races have outlived their usefulness and product literally an hour or so or abject boredom mixed with very infrequent moments of excitement. Many break down to a strategy game, pit strategy and gas mileage strategy. Personally, I prefer racing. But that's just me and I could be very wrong...