[Jeffrey4396]

Originally Posted by jks812

I'm not new to the sport, been a fan for over half my life. I know what kind of driver Terry was, and thats why it's hard to see him on the track now running like he does. Do you really think the 45 is any better than the 5 was? I didn't say it made him a bad person for accepting the ride. I guess this is how I feel, you have a driver and he was a great driver, now they put him on the track and all of a sudden he goes from being a great driver to being an also ran driver. I just hate having to think of him now as an also ran driver instead of a competitor.

Terry didn't run horrible in the 5 car. Did he run great? No, but he was more of a midpack driver. It wasn't until he was in the 44 parttime driving that he really fell off. He did score a win in his last full time season in the 5 car. So yeah I am going to put more blame on the 44 car then Terry's driving ablilities. He even had some decent runs in the 11 car, not great but decent. Now does this mean he will run great in the 45? No, that team is way off from having that ability. I do think he can get in it qualify (no PCP) and run in the top 30 maybe even break top 20 here and there. I don't think his driving ability has dropped as far off as people think it has.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by salysenior

there are not to many people that know how bad terry got hurt....

if he was hurt badly, then maybe he shouldn't be in a car...

Originally Posted by Jeffrey4396

Wow, just wow. Those of you who think they should just throw Chad in the car are greatly mistaken. I do agree Kyle needs to step aside, but if you just throw Chad in that car to "sink or swim" only bads things will happen. That team is nowhere near being a team that can compete with any driver. If you put Chad in it things will only get worst.

Just because Terry didn't run well in his last few years in a test car for Hendrick doesn't mean he can't wheel a car. Yes lets call it what it is, the Petty's calling on Terry's garaunteed spot. So why does this make Terry a bad person for accepting it? Money? Ego? Wow I've heard some strange things in my life. I've never ever heard that about Terry. I'll take a pass and just assume that those who made those comments must be new to the sport and don't know what kind of a character Terry is. They say the new car drives alot like the older ones. I guess that means there could be a possiblity in Terry having a little success. Besides it wouldn't hurt to use Terry's experience to try and find something that could be wrong with that team.

Go ahead fire away.

Gosh Jeffrey, I've only been watching & participating in "stock car" races since 1968 when I joined my brother in the early part of his career (you might remember him: Clarence Lovell - NASCAR Grand National driver, Car #61, 1972-3.) So, I guess that makes me "new to the sport" doesn't it?

As for "Texas Terry", I lost my respect for him as a racer when he visited our local track in Austin in the 1980's and did a "Kyle Busch" on every car there even though his car was so superior he could have beaten everyone with 2 flat tires!!! Then he didn't even have the grace to stick around for an autograph session. I understand your loyalty, him being a CC boy and all, but pardon me if I don't share your loyalty nor admiration for the man.

That said, I think he was a very talented racer or he wouldn't be a 2 time Winston Cup Champ, the last coming in 1996.

But, excuses aside (you can believe that "test car" story if you want - I don't), his last years driving in Cup were exactly as I said: abysmal for a former Winston Cup Champ.

• From 1999 on he never finished in the top 10, points-wise, (breaking a string of 5 straight seasons in the top 10) except in 2003 (when he won his last race) and then only beating out Kurt Busch by 12 points for 10th.
• His last full season (2004), he finished 26th over all and managed only 6 top 10's out of 36 races
• In 2005 he had 1 top 10 in 14 races
• In 2006 he had 1 top 10 in 17 races (the infamous "gas mileage" 3rd place at Sonoma without which his average finish for the year would have been much worse than 29.3 since he only had 1 other top 20 finish)
• In 2007 he had 0 top 10's in 3 races (driving for Michael Waltrip in the NAPA Toyota.)

[Jeffrey4396]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

if he was hurt badly, then maybe he shouldn't be in a car...


Gosh Jeffrey, I've only been watching & participating in "stock car" races since 1968 when I joined my brother in the early part of his career (you might remember him: Clarence Lovell - NASCAR Grand National driver, Car #61, 1972-3.) So, I guess that makes me "new to the sport" doesn't it?

As for "Texas Terry", I lost my respect for him as a racer when he visited our local track in Austin in the 1980's and did a "Kyle Busch" on every car there even though his car was so superior he could have beaten everyone with 2 flat tires!!! Then he didn't even have the grace to stick around for an autograph session. I understand your loyalty, him being a CC boy and all, but pardon me if I don't share your loyalty nor admiration for the man.

That said, I think he was a very talented racer or he wouldn't be a 2 time Winston Cup Champ, the last coming in 1996.

But, excuses aside (you can believe that "test car" story if you want - I don't), his last years driving in Cup were exactly as I said: abysmal for a former Winston Cup Champ.

• From 1999 on he never finished in the top 10, points-wise, (breaking a string of 5 straight seasons in the top 10) except in 2003 (when he won his last race) and then only beating out Kurt Busch by 12 points for 10th.
• His last full season (2004), he finished 26th over all and managed only 6 top 10's out of 36 races
• In 2005 he had 1 top 10 in 14 races
• In 2006 he had 1 top 10 in 17 races (the infamous "gas mileage" 3rd place at Sonoma without which his average finish for the year would have been much worse than 29.3 since he only had 1 other top 20 finish)
• In 2007 he had 0 top 10's in 3 races (driving for Michael Waltrip in the NAPA Toyota.)

Ducky please read post above yours for "performance references."

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey4396

Ducky please read post above yours for "performance references."

Evidently I was composing my post when yours was posted.

I'm glad you agree his last seasons were not great. However, you made an error: his last win was in 2003 at Darlington, but his last year in the 5 car was 2004 with a best finish of 6th (once at Chicago and once at Pocono), .

That said, I repeat, I hope it works out well for PE. They certainly need something to go well (besides Bobby.) I'm just not convinced "Texas Terry" is the answer.

But I've been wrong before...

[jks812]

Well if nothing else the 45 will at least be in the races. Now the question will be can he get and keep it in the top 35.
But the very best part of this whole deal.......Kyle will be in the booth!!!! I really enjoy his calling of the races.

[clutch]

This scenario is slightly different from the Wood Bros and Elliott, in that Kyle is going to the booth and someone has to replace him for those 7 races. To get a past champ in the car only makes it better.
Past Champ Provisionals are a short term solution that in this case will work to the Petty's advantage

They can thank Bobby for that

[BiscuitMan]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

I'm just not convinced "Texas Terry" is the answer. But I've been wrong before...

Well, Duck. If "Texas Terry: isn't the answer, who is? We're all aware of Terry's performance decline. That's why he is in retirement. What he brings to Petty Enterprises is a "chance" to actually get in the race. That is better than what Kyle was able to do many times.

So, who would have been a better choice in this interm period for the 45 to get into the "chosen 35"?

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by BiscuitMan

Well, Duck. If "Texas Terry: isn't the answer, who is? We're all aware of Terry's performance decline. That's why he is in retirement. What he brings to Petty Enterprises is a "chance" to actually get in the race. That is better than what Kyle was able to do many times.

So, who would have been a better choice in this interm period for the 45 to get into the "chosen 35"?

my first pick would be Boris Said, hands down .. and he might even bring a sponsor with him! not a big money sponsor, but still one willing to provide some extra cash for the team. 3 of the next 7 races (not counting the All Star) are at tracks Boris excels at: Pocono, Infineon and Daytona.

after that, I'd be looking at "experienced" drivers like: Kenny Shrader, Johnny Sauter, Kenny Wallace, Jeff Green, Johnny Benson, Scott Wimmer or Tony Raines.

now, I know all these guys have rides from time to time (Boris has his own underfunded team), and some may even be "contracted" to particular teams, but they're all capable of qualifying well enough to get in and they all have plenty of seat time in Cup, so you're not throwing "fresh meat" into the ring.

[LSC9901]

Along those line when would you "throw fresh meat" into the car ??? PE doesn't have enough going for it to command a Tony Stewart type driver and I think most agree that Terry and Bill are not a real solution.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Along those line when would you "throw fresh meat" into the car ??? PE doesn't have enough going for it to command a Tony Stewart type driver and I think most agree that Terry and Bill are not a real solution.

a good driver can only make an uncompetitive car mediocre .. a great driver (Tony for example) a few notches higher.

that doesn't mean a competitive car has to be technologically superior to 50% of the competition, only that it be built and prepared using solid parts and techniques.

however, the car and the driver only make up 2/3 of the package: the team must be solid with a good mix of experience and expertise at critical spots (and some youthful enthusiasm!)

without a team that meets those requirements, the car won't be competitive no matter how much technology it has and there's nothing the driver can do about it.

but a good driver and a solid team can make an uncompetitive car competitive.

so, when do you put in a "rookie" driver? when the team is capable of fielding a competitive car. otherwise you have to be ready to accept poor performance and lots of "mistakes" as both the team and driver learn their trade well enough to produce reasonable results in the series, i.e., we call that a "building season" and expect to see improvement all the way around over the course of the year.

however, having bucket loads of talent does not keep an inexperienced driver from making "rookie" mistakes. there are many talented, seasoned drivers who regularly make those kinds of mistakes and that keeps them from advancing into the elite "front runners" ranks - we had a notable one just this past week.

[BiscuitMan]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

my first pick would be Boris Said, hands down .. and he might even bring a sponsor with him! not a big money sponsor, but still one willing to provide some extra cash for the team. 3 of the next 7 races (not counting the All Star) are at tracks Boris excels at: Pocono, Infineon and Daytona.

after that, I'd be looking at "experienced" drivers like: Kenny Shrader, Johnny Sauter, Kenny Wallace, Jeff Green, Johnny Benson, Scott Wimmer or Tony Raines.

now, I know all these guys have rides from time to time (Boris has his own underfunded team), and some may even be "contracted" to particular teams, but they're all capable of qualifying well enough to get in and they all have plenty of seat time in Cup, so you're not throwing "fresh meat" into the ring.

These are good picks for a full time driver. However, I would use Terry to get the car in the race to build points. Once a points advantage is achieved, I would select Johnny Benson from your list. He is a solid driver with proven experience. It's a shame he seems to be left out from being considered for most available rides.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by BiscuitMan

These are good picks for a full time driver. However, I would use Terry to get the car in the race to build points. Once a points advantage is achieved, I would select Johnny Benson from your list. He is a solid driver with proven experience. It's a shame he seems to be left out from being considered for most available rides.

wouldn't you think whoever got the ride besides Terry would be the top candidate for a full-time ride? and, which is more important: getting a better driver for the 45 or getting it in the Chosen? (sometimes the choice between strategic and tactical is tough!)

I know Kyle doesn't want to step down, but at some point his dad, team and sponsors will be strongly urging, if not demanding, him to replace the steering wheel with a microphone .. permanently. he probably has a few good races left in him, but how many races must they suffer thru between the good ones? Kyle needs to realize his ego is hurting the team: I don't think he does, right now.

[BiscuitMan]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

wouldn't you think whoever got the ride besides Terry would be the top candidate for a full-time ride? and, which is more important: getting a better driver for the 45 or getting it in the Chosen? (sometimes the choice between strategic and tactical is tough!)

I know Kyle doesn't want to step down, but at some point his dad, team and sponsors will be strongly urging, if not demanding, him to replace the steering wheel with a microphone .. permanently. he probably has a few good races left in him, but how many races must they suffer thru between the good ones? Kyle needs to realize his ego is hurting the team: I don't think he does, right now.

Right now, (in the interim) I would think the goal would be to get the car in the "Chosen 35". Otherwise, whomever the driver is, must qualify the car on speed. That could be difficult with the known performance level of the 45. Terry will get the car in the show with his champion provisional. I know that's semi-cheating, but its within the "rules of the game".

Richard needs to have a "heart to heart" talk with Kyle.

[Racer Duck]

getting into the race doesn't guarantee making enough points to get into the chosen.

right now the #45 is 42nd in owner points, some 250 points out of 35th. In order for Terry to get the 45 into the chosen he'll have to average a 25th place finish in each of the 5 races he is scheduled to drive, i.e., 50 points (the average of 5 races at 250 point defecit) plus the 42nd place points (37) = 87 points or 25th place (88 points without leading a lap).

now, maybe he can do it, but in his last 70 races (2004 thru 2007) he hasn't averaged better than 26.9 or 86.74 points per race.

he's been in the COT 2 times, both at road courses, both times in Mikey's car, and never finished better than 30th.

the last time Terry was in a cup car was 10 months ago at Watkinis Glen.

(all this doesn't give me warm fuzzies that he can pull off what he needs to.)

the only good statistics are the following. he will be in 5 of these 7 races (his record at that track in the last 5 years):

• Dover (2 races, average finish: 17.0)
• Pocono (5 races, average finish: 17.8)
• Michigan (3 races, average finish: 31.0)
• Sonoma (4 races, average finish: 22.5)
• New Hampshire (2 races, average finish 20.0)
• Daytona (3 races, average finish: 15.0)
• Chicagoland (3 races, average finish: 30.3)

so, if he sits out Michigan and Chicagoland, then it's up to Chad to average better than 30th to ensure regaining "Chosen" status.

as I said, I hope he can pull it off, but I'm not holding my breath....

[Racer Duck]

guess I'm behind on my reading. just saw this thread: McCumbee to drive in pair of Cup races

it says Chad will drive Dover and Chicagoland. that darkens the outlook for Terry's success a bit....