[Ellison]

Jeff Gordon has ...

- (3) top 10's
- (3) top 5's

would most likely be ...

- (5) top 10's
- (4) top 5's

... if not for problem at Daytona (probable top 10) and wreck at Vegas (was in top 5).


Let's not over react. He finished 2nd last week while winning the pole (short memories?).

Top 10 this week and makes the Chase in September.

[SpaceCadet]

There's one thing I noticed about race fans, not only in this thread but in lots of others. There's quite a few optimistic fans out there, and that's a good thing. My only observation about drivers, in this case Gordon, having bad luck is that it doesn't matter what the reason is for poor finishes. If bad luck continues, there are no "if he hadn't been wrecked by so and so" or "if he hadn't had handling problems", scenarios that will matter. "Shoulda, coulda, woulda" doesn't matter. What matters is what is. At the end of the year, any team can look back and say, "gee we had horrible luck or we would have finished much better". Well, that's a no brainer. I would like to see driver's like Gordon and Stewart have better "luck", for lack of a better term. To have all the most exciting drivers in those last 10 races is he only thing that keeps people watching. I'd love to see JG, JJ, Jr., Stewart, Edwards, Montoya, the Bros Busch, Kenseth -in other words the driver's that in my opinion are going to leave some tire marks on a few doors if that's what it takes to win.

[saltysenior]

sharing notes ????....did you forget that jeff is owner of the j.johnson car ?..

[Ellison]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

..it doesn't matter what the reason is for poor finishes...

what? whatever.

It most certainly does matter what the reason is. If it's a team that just has poor cars or a driver with less talent ... those things don't change. Thus bad results each week.

If it's a wreck here (Las Vegas) and a broken part there (Daytona), these are things that can be corrected or avoided each week. It's really been one bad performance for the 24, and that was at Texas (his bogey track anyway).

I'm not a 24 fan, so I'm not typing out of optimism. I'm just not that dumb to count him out.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by Ellison

what? whatever.

It most certainly does matter what the reason is. If it's a team that just has poor cars or a driver with less talent ... those things don't change. Thus bad results each week.

If it's a wreck here (Las Vegas) and a broken part there (Daytona), these are things that can be corrected or avoided each week. It's really been one bad performance for the 24, and that was at Texas (his bogey track anyway).

I'm not a 24 fan, so I'm not typing out of optimism. I'm just not that dumb to count him out.

I must have missed the part where I said I was counting him out. Far from it. However, I'm curious, how does one prevent a broken part? How does one avoid an unavoidable accident? If it could be done, wouldn't they all be avoiding them? My missed point being, you can be the best team/driver in the world. If things don't go your way, if you have an unlucky season, you can moan and groan about what should have been all you want, but it won't matter. I want to see Gordon in the Chase because he's good and makes for a better race when he's in contention, as do many other talented drivers. I actually don't care who wins the whole shootin' match, I just don't want the whole thing to be a snoozer. I still maintain that the weak link is Letarte, and he's probably crossing his wrenches that Chad's not holding back.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by salysenior

sharing notes ????....did you forget that jeff is owner of the j.johnson car ?..

That doesn't mean JJ and crew are giving up every little bit of info. Why wouldn't they hold a little something back? They want to win and to do that they are going to have to be a step above their teammates. When the feces hits the rotary air circulator and they're both going for the championship, I know if it were me I wouldn't be giving my biggest competitor the info that might give him the edge. If the fact that he's also the owner of that car comes into play in JG's mind, then I think there's a conflict of interest he's going to have to deal with on his own terms. I'd like to see them battling each other again, see if anyone crosses that "I gotta be nice 'cause he's on my team" line if it comes down to all or first loser.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

I still maintain that the weak link is Letarte, and he's probably crossing his wrenches that Chad's not holding back.

I've heard other people say that LeTarte is the problem with JG this year. What I wonder is this, how can people say that it's his fault JG is having a bad time right now? After all nobody thought he was a bad crew chief last year.
I think this just proves the other thread about luck versus skill. JG has the skill, he just happens to have alittle bad luck right now.

[Racer Duck]

If there were a better employee at HMS to crew chief the #24 (without taking away from the #48 or #88) he/she would already be on the pit box. Lance McGrew is probably the best they have not in Cup, but not good enough in the mind of the powers that be to take Letarte's place.

I know from personal experience, ya get into ruts where ya fix one thing and something else pops up. We chased an oil overheating problem that made no sense for weeks, loosing a couple engines in the process. Turns out a simple "habit" was the cause. Once we stumbled across it, we've not had another problem like it since.

Gordo has never been all that good at Texas. You might call it a "nemisis track" for him. So, a bad showing at Texas is not unusual for him. And he was right when he said they were so far off he was completely lost. An elite driver like Gordo comes to expect to fine tune setups, not start from scratch.

[BiscuitMan]

Steve Letarte is the crew chief for the 24 and is responsible to assure the car is race ready and gives instructions during the race. However, there are other people on the No. 24 team that play a big role other than Jeff Gordon and Steve Letarte.

Jason Burdett is the car chief and makes sure the car's setup is in position and the car is race ready (all bolts and nuts tight etc.). Pete Michel is their chassis setup specialist and keeps the records of setups. He has the setup from Dale Jr. and Jimmie Johnson. Jeff Gordon was asked in the garage about putting Dale Jr.'s setup under the car. He said, "We could, but that was basically Jimmie's setup we had in it. Nothing we have done has fixed the problem we are having. I don't think it is a setup thing, something else is going on and we are trying to figure it out."

Rick Hendrick has alway been proud of the coordination between his teams and the fact they communicate and work with each other very well. If this is a "personnel" problem, I feel he will fix it real quick. But, Jeff Gordon's comments tells me it may be a "chassis" problem that they may be experiencing. If so, this may put into question the rest of the season's results and bringing more bad news in the future.

[saltysenior]

Originally Posted by salysenior

sharing notes ????....did you forget that jeff is owner of the j.johnson car ?..

if jeff OWNS the 48 and he thinks it is better, does he have the power to look it over ,to test drive it, to measure it's set ups, or just tell them to put a du pont paint job on it with the #24,and drive it the next race..

[BiscuitMan]

Originally Posted by salysenior

sharing notes ????....did you forget that jeff is owner of the j.johnson car ?..

I believe Jeff Gordon is "listed" as the owner of the No. 48. I'm sure there are some financial rewards for this, but it probably is a similar arrangement as what Mark Martin had with Roush. He was listed as the owner of the No. 17 for years. But, when time came for Mark to leave, someone else is listed as the owner.

I have heard that Jeff Gordon has a "lifetime" contract with Rick Hendrick and as such will be around HMS for quite a while... reaping rewards.

[Racer Duck]

Gordo recommended JJ to Rick .. Rick said "you think this guy is so good, put your money where your mouth is" .. Gordo did.

That's a story I've heard from both Gordo and Rick, so I have to believe it's true .. and that's why Gordo is listed as the owner of the #48. I think Rick supplies the people, shop space, marketing, etc., but Jeffie owns the car(s)...

[wardfan]

maybe he's just not getting practice because he's busy changing diapers, or maybe its post partum depression. After all the drama about the baby last year. Jeez

[Quality88]

What's the issue....he's suckin it up for a change. Big deal.

[wingkey1]

Since speculation (guessing and other forms of imagination based on either/or knowledge or complete lack thereof) seems the basis of the title/thread and associated posts, here's a (or more) possibility conceived from the imagination of one who's "designed" (OK maybe in truth stole from other manufacturers whose examples we had in shop for measure and think purposes), and constructed five "exactly the same" race frames, for teams that "shared" information (What are the "mic" measurements on that sway bar?").

Possibility exists that one of the "sharing" group made an independent decsion (the "sharing" would come later) to make a change/modification/your favorite word here, that in the event of wild success, or equally wild failure, would be addressed upon questioning with pre-arranged responses that could only be interpreted as: "gee we really don't know" and over radio communications such as: "let's just use the remainder of this day as a test session" to ensure the CLEARLY KNOWN OR EXPECTED reason for the unusual day to remain a mystery to all but those in the "need to know" classification. I mean come on, in the competitive world we enjoy, how much sense would - "this here exact thing we tried, with all details and measure included, just didn't work and we'd like to share it with all of our competitors so they do not go down the same fruitless path" - make?

Lost? Me too, but we're still going on.

Say for instance one of the group of "sharing" individuals chose (that'd be the independent and as yet unshared choice thing) that welding that/a gusset (sp?) in the forward-most crossmember where it meets the main frame at the 45 angle on the right side, could change the flex moment to shift the influence of the sway bar under acceleration. Just say. And then come race day - Oh Lord, why have you abandoned me? Now some questioning soul may be inclined to ask whether perhaps these "trial and error" thoughts might not all be addressed in prior testing efforts. Or questions like - would a choice like this not be "stupid" made at the latter moments of opportunity rather than test extensively before application? And while valid, logically correct, and historically justified querys, in the heat of the competitive moment, bad choices are made.

Straying thought Follows : Hey there's another possibility within all of this. Possibility that the gusset idea WAS shared amongst all and the collective team decision was - Dude that looks radical on the edge and may produce wildly good or on the other had, wildly bad, results. Let's try it on only one of the cars rather than expose all to the "possibilities". Volunteers? This is a real possibility. REAL real.

So, what does all this mean? Little to nothing to some. Less to others. More to a few.

Sorry to all. Good Lord did that ramble and stray. Oh well, better to be attempted in the future.