[Bryan88]

Originally Posted by bayou_bengals

How about this for a stat? Dale Jr. leads Kyle Busch in the standings. Gavel falls, case closed, court adjourned. Oh yeah. And he's sitting on the pole at Texas this weekend.

I guess I am not letting this argument die since this is my 4th post about this today , but honestly points only matter for making the chase and it doesn't really matter much who is in 4th or 5th place after the 26th race. If you assume both make the chase then Kyle actually has a 10 point edge on Jr right now.

[BiscuitMan]

Originally Posted by Bryan88

I sorta like this driver rating stat as an overall view of how a driver is doing.

Formula combining the following categories: Wins, Finishes, Top-15 Finishes, Average Running Position While on Lead Lap, Average Speed Under Green, Fastest Lap, Led Most Laps, Lead-Lap Finish. Maximum: 150 points per race. Must have raced in 75 percent of scheduled point-paying races.

1. Kyle Bush 110.5
2. Carl Edwards 106.5
3. Jeff Gordon 106.5
4. Dale Jr 105.0
5. Tony Stewart 100.8

I noticed that your formula doesn't have a factor for "daring moves", "passes of the outside in tight corners", and "positions gained on pit stops". This, of course, would make your results a little more subjective.

I looked up subjective in the dictionary and it states "existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought". So, I guess if you included my suggestions, we would be back where we started.

[bayou_bengals]

Okay. I can see we're not getting anywhere here. I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with Dale Jr. Here's a guy that never gives NASCAR or any driver a minutes trouble. Yet people like Kyle who has the worst attitude and is a punk. I wish some veteran would dot his eye for him. You don't win 17 races in 8 seasons by only being a good merchandise seller. I'm not saying that Jr. is the best, but could he get a little credit please. And I never said Dale was going to win the cup. I simply said that at this time he was ahead of Kyle in the standings.

[bayou_bengals]

And another thing. I didn't mean to post so many times. My computer does stupid stuff.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by bayou_bengals

Okay. I can see we're not getting anywhere here. I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with Dale Jr. Here's a guy that never gives NASCAR or any driver a minutes trouble. Yet people like Kyle who has the worst attitude and is a punk. I wish some veteran would dot his eye for him. You don't win 17 races in 8 seasons by only being a good merchandise seller. I'm not saying that Jr. is the best, but could he get a little credit please. And I never said Dale was going to win the cup. I simply said that at this time he was ahead of Kyle in the standings.

I don't have a problem with Jr. In fact I am a HUGE fan of his. But when asked who is the better of he and another driver, I can be honest and admit the other driver is.
I happen to like Kyle because he actually races the whole race. He don't race for the first 100 laps and then ride til the last 100 and decide to race again.
And Jr leading him in the points didn't last long. Jr seems to have developed a habit this year and starting the race in a great way and then just falling. Hopefully he'll win soon.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by bayou_bengals

Okay. I can see we're not getting anywhere here. I didn't realize that so many people had a problem with Dale Jr. Here's a guy that never gives NASCAR or any driver a minutes trouble. Yet people like Kyle who has the worst attitude and is a punk. I wish some veteran would dot his eye for him. You don't win 17 races in 8 seasons by only being a good merchandise seller. I'm not saying that Jr. is the best, but could he get a little credit please. And I never said Dale was going to win the cup. I simply said that at this time he was ahead of Kyle in the standings.

and that time is past .. now he's behind...

Originally Posted by bayou_bengals

And another thing. I didn't mean to post so many times. My computer does stupid stuff.

you must have the same kind of computer that I do .. it's always saying or doing something stupid .. makes me look awful

Originally Posted by jks812

I don't have a problem with Jr. In fact I am a HUGE fan of his. But when asked who is the better of he and another driver, I can be honest and admit the other driver is.
I happen to like Kyle because he actually races the whole race. He don't race for the first 100 laps and then ride til the last 100 and decide to race again.
And Jr leading him in the points didn't last long. Jr seems to have developed a habit this year and starting the race in a great way and then just falling. Hopefully he'll win soon.

I'm sure he will .. just don't know how soon "soon" will be...

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Did I misunderstand you? Jeff Burton deliberately wrecks others to win? I think I would have to disagree with that statement.

I suppose you can prove your allegations? Or are they merely opinions?

wre
I was meaning that Jeff Burton does NOT wreck others to win! Jeff Burton is a class act.

[casa]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Did I say staying on the track was not a plus?

I consider action on the track to be when drivers are actively trying to improve their position, no matter whether it's from last place or 2nd place. While I understand the mentality that belongs to points racing, I don't agree with it. I do not approve of bump and run (aka, the chrome horn), nor have I ever condoned any driver for using such tactics. There have been other threads here where we have discussed ad nauseum those that do, those that don't and those who became famous for such tactics. I do not intend to re-open that subject, nor will I participate in it if it is reopened.

Wrecks do not excite me, never had, never will - I am not one of those people who slows down to gaze over scenes of wreckage on the highway, and I do not care to see fifteen replays of wrecks on the track either.

Who is wrecking other people and doing stupid things? I never claimed either driver did any such thing.

If Jr continues to finish lower than he starts his fan appeal and sponsor appeal will dwindle. That is a fact of life.

One last comment: I have not ever claimed either Jr or Shrub were good drivers, nor have I ever claimed to be a fan of either. What I have said is I'm beginning to like Shrub more because he seems to be maturing and that I think Shrub is a more exciting driver to watch than Jr. That doesn't mean I believe Shrub walks on water or even that he's on a short list of drivers that are favorites. Nor have I ever stated which driver I believe has more pure driving talent.

Yeah, hold your breath while his fan and sponsor appeal dwindles! HAHA

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by casa

Yeah, hold your breath while his fan and sponsor appeal dwindles! HAHA

If he doesn't succeed, his appeal sure could dwindle. Even the best of drivers or athletes can't just sit back and print money.

You have to perform. I wouldn't be to sure that folks will just stand by Jr for years on end without a championship, or at least some points wins.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Phils20

If he doesn't succeed, his appeal sure could dwindle. Even the best of drivers or athletes can't just sit back and print money.

You have to perform. I wouldn't be to sure that folks will just stand by Jr for years on end without a championship, or at least some points wins.

Excellent point. He seems to have been given everything that most drivers would want so that they could win a championship. Granted it may take a while for it to actually happen but somewhere down the line he will become a "could have been" instead of a maybe. I see Jr as a better than average driver but all that can fade if you don't produce when you have the bull by the horns. Naturally this applies to any who have early success.

[casa]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Excellent point. He seems to have been given everything that most drivers would want so that they could win a championship. Granted it may take a while for it to actually happen but somewhere down the line he will become a "could have been" instead of a maybe. I see Jr as a better than average driver but all that can fade if you don't produce when you have the bull by the horns. Naturally this applies to any who have early success.

Obviously I like Jr. No, he is not winning races now but he is being consistent and that has him 4th in the points. I do believe however that it is only a matter of time until he does start winning races. I'm going to remain a fan of his no matter. I look at it this way. I have favorite football teams and I don't stop pulling for them because they haven't won a championship. I'll be a Jr. fan even if he doesn't win a championship.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by casa

Obviously I like Jr. No, he is not winning races now but he is being consistent and that has him 4th in the points. I do believe however that it is only a matter of time until he does start winning races. I'm going to remain a fan of his no matter. I look at it this way. I have favorite football teams and I don't stop pulling for them because they haven't won a championship. I'll be a Jr. fan even if he doesn't win a championship.

Everything you are saying is the sign of a true driver fan. I most certainly hope he can win more races and get his first championship. I'm just a race fan so I am happy to see just about any driver win. Some of todays fans, and this doesn't apply to just racing, cheer for the most probable winner so they can lay claim to being a fan of the winner. Those fans come and go but the true blue fan is the backbone of NASCAR in my book.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Phils20

If he doesn't succeed, his appeal sure could dwindle. Even the best of drivers or athletes can't just sit back and print money.

You have to perform. I wouldn't be to sure that folks will just stand by Jr for years on end without a championship, or at least some points wins.

Ponder this one, Phils... The [former] Red Army Ants all looked with absolutely wet anticipation this year for Jr. to succeed with The Felon.

I'm sure a slight amount of the increased TV ratings was due to the [supposed] bad economy and the cost of going to a race. But, if 10% of, say... 100,000 potential spectators stay home and watch the tube instead of going to a race in person, how many actual rating points does that 10K amount account for. I'd say less that one-half of one percent.

There are far more Jr. followers than there are people who decide to NOT attend a race but rather watch it on TV. I maintain the raise in TV ratings this year is primarily to the ongoing saga of the red-headed Junior.

He hasn't won so far this year. He's done great but... To a true Jr. fan winning is the standard measure of success. Since he hasn't won yet, and last week TV rating declined for the first time this season, I point to your above postulate (success and fan appeal are directly proportional) as an axiom we can take to the bank.