[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Bryan Blanton

I have a question for bob tanner was the ford galaxie you mentioned the car junior johnson entered at atlanta 1 year in the 60's with fred lorenzen as the driver was that the car that they call the yellow banana.

I think the car was a ford but i'm not sure what type of ford it was.

I think because of the car's shape they actually had to pick lorenzen up and put him in the car.

Racer Duck is 100% correct, Bryan. We have now ventured into the land of NASCAR history and trivia, an aera which I know a tiny bit about.

You reference Junior's "Yellow Banana." I'll answer it more fully over on the GTG Trivia Forum.

[onearmsteve]

hey RD, since you explained the bump stop to me, i have another question.

what's the major difference between spring rubbers and bump stops? i understand the bump stop to be an adjustment on the shock and the rubber an adjustment on the spring (hence spring rubber). this correct, yes?

so, my questions: do teams do both at the same time? or is it a spring rubber or bump stop? how does each affect the handling? why are some people (like Crusty Rusty) adamant in their hatred for bump stops but not spring rubbers? can a bump stop be done in the middle of the race like a spring rubber can?

thanks!!

[Loki309]

I can't answer the entire thing. But I think that a bump stop can only be done in the garage cause I think they have to compress the spring to install it.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by onearmsteve

hey RD, since you explained the bump stop to me, i have another question.

what's the major difference between spring rubbers and bump stops? i understand the bump stop to be an adjustment on the shock and the rubber an adjustment on the spring (hence spring rubber). this correct, yes?

so, my questions: do teams do both at the same time? or is it a spring rubber or bump stop? how does each affect the handling? why are some people (like Crusty Rusty) adamant in their hatred for bump stops but not spring rubbers? can a bump stop be done in the middle of the race like a spring rubber can?

thanks!!

"another question" Looks like you want me to write a book!!!

Ok, let's take them in the order asked (and hope I don't take a rabbit trail or two and get things out of order )

The spring rubber allows teams to make a quick spring rate change on a racecar without removing/replacing the (suspension) spring. You usually see the teams make this adjustment on the rear springs, but it can be done on the front springs also. A spring rubber is a large donut shaped affair, usually with a strap-like "handle" attached which aids in speedy installation/removal, that fits between the coils of a spring. In order for that to work, the donut is not a circle, but instead a circle with a cut thru one part so that it has 2 ends (it has to conform to the spiral of the spring.) Spring rubbers come in different densities and thicknesses which directly relate to a specific spring rating, i.e., you may have a spring rubber rated at 35 lbs/inch. If you cut that spring rubber in half (lengthwise) then you'd have a 17.5 lbs/inch spring rubber. So if I added a 35 lb spring rubber to the right rear spring which is currently rated at, say 350 lbs/in, it would act the same as if I replaced the 350 lb spring with a 385 lb spring, i.e., stiffening up the rirght rear.

Bump stops, on the other hand, are small donut shaped affairs which are placed around the shock piston rod. They are used to control the abruptness of the stop caused by "bottoming out" the shock. Like spring rubbers, they have different spring rates, usually much higher than spring rubbers. Unlike the spring rubber, the shock must be partially disassembled to install the bump stop.

Bump stops were invented to help control the end of suspension travel in race cars using the Big Bar Soft Spring (BBSS) setup where the visible characteristics of the setup is the front end visibly dropping down to barely off the pavement during corner entry. Shock compression and rebound settings allow the quick transition down, but drastically slow the return to "normal" on the way up, thus keeping the front in down on corner exit. The benefit is increased down force on the front end during cornering. The soft front springs allow increased down force at speed (on the straight) to force the front end down while the big bar adds additional spring rate to the front springs as the car transitions into the corner and begins "rolling".

So, Yes, you are correct in that spring rubbers adjust the springs. However, bump stops only adjust the shock by softening the blow of bottoming out the shock, thus not playing any other role in the workings of the shock, i.e., it has no role in controlling rebound nor compression.

Yes, the teams do both at once.

But it can be either or both.

I'm not an expert on why people like some things and not others. Nor would I venture a guess.

Yes, it's possible to do either during a race, but a bump stop will take much longer .. it is quicker to change the shock for one with the "new" bump stop already installed (which is what the teams actually do.)

Hope I didn't get too technical and that I answered all your questions. If not, you know where to find me

[onearmsteve]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

"another question" Looks like you want me to write a book!!!

ha. call that a typo. i meant to say questions, but left the S off.

thanks for taking the time to explain everything to me.

[mccastle]

What are scuff tires and sticker tires?

Carrie

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by mccastle

What are scuff tires and sticker tires?

Carrie

a brand new tire that's never been driven has a sticker (usually white) that has the brand name, size, etc. on it, thus called "sticker" tires.

oftentimes a team will want to get the initial "factory finish" off a tire so they mount them on a car and run a few laps (usually less than 10-12). these are called scuffed or scuff tires.

usually the sticker tires are best for the first few laps, which makes them good for qualifying and restarts, while scuff tires have that "newness" worn off and are more stable/consistent.

it really depends on how the car is handling and what strategy the team is on as to which way they go when changing tires during a practice session or race.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by onearmsteve

ha. call that a typo. i meant to say questions, but left the S off.

thanks for taking the time to explain everything to me.

no prob .. I actually thought an old race fan like yourself already knew this stuff and was just testing me.

[Bob Tanner]

Duck-a rino, I have a question:

I knew what skew is, it's effect, and the ball of wax, but what intrigues me is that early in the year NA__AR said they put limits on how much skew a car could have. Things seems pretty normal until 3-4 weeks ago. Now it looks as though they're crabbing down the straights worse than they did early on? Did NA__AR quietly rescind the rule? If so, for what reason? Are they just "looking the other way?" Am I seeing things?

What's your take on the situation?

[Phils20]

I'm curious about that as well. I know a couple of weeks ago, in practice, they were talking about the 77, and laughing about how bad out of whack it was.

I haven't heard about the rule being gone, so it is a great question!

[Racer Duck]

I haven't heard (or read) anything that would make me believe the rule has gone away.

That said, from personal experience I know the tech people tend to work in cycles: there's a "core" set of rules they check every race, but there's a bunch of "gray areas" that they will focus on from time to time. And garages being what they are (the next best thing to the back fence) it doesn't take long for the word to get around what the hot item(s) is(are) this week and, conversely, the things that aren't being checked.

I understand right now it takes upwards of an hour to get a car thru tech, so they're doing a pretty thorough job, but, naturally they can't check everything...

[onearmsteve]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

no prob .. I actually thought an old race fan like yourself already knew this stuff and was just testing me.

honestly, i understand racing from a business perspective much better than a technical perspective.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by onearmsteve

honestly, i understand racing from a business perspective much better than a technical perspective.

well, any time you have a techie question I stand ready to show how really ignorant I am on the subject.

the business part is a bit more difficult: it's so simple (spend someone else's money and have fun) there must be something else to it. so far I've got the 2nd part down, but still struggling with the first part...

[Boobleay]

There is a crazy amount of information here... I'll get back to you when I've read through the thread... in a month or so...

[Bryan Blanton]

What is coil binding? I think nascar banned the teams from using this type of technology before the start of this year i was just curious what it was i know they let the teams use bump stops this year.

I've heard some of the older drivers had a tough time with the coil binding technology. I've even heard a few of them don't like the bump stops either.

Also when did they start using coil binding technology in nascar as i don't recall hearing about it until maybe 2002 or 03 or 04?