[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by thunderfoot

OK I got a question that I could use some good answers on.

I have run out of my pocket most of my owner/driver career and it doesn't go too well by mid season, if I have a run of bad luck. The money tends to dry up fast. What I want to know is how do I get a money sponsor? I have plenty of sponsors that do the paint, lettering, body parts from the wrecking yard and so on and one to buy a couple sets of tires. But I need money. How do I convince a business owner that he can benefit by advertising on my race car? What can I give to him that would benefit his business, besides a tax write off? I need some ideas here.

thunderfoot, that's a question I wish I knew how to answer so that it would work every time.

I know how the books say to do it, but find there's still some "door knocking" that has to happen and "cold calling" has never been my favorite thing to do (I was in sales for a few years, so I've been there and don't like it.)

I was lucky in that my ex-son-in-law's best boyhood friend grew up to be his best friend, best man and partner in racing at the local circle track. the best friend went on to become an architect and is doing quite well specializing in custom homes. he loves racing. when my ex-son-in-law quit racing, the architect was heart broken. when my son moved back from NC after spending time on a Busch team and we started our race team, the architect wanted in. so, not only is he my crew chief, he's also my primary sponsor.

I've had other sponsors over the years that did things like a case of oil, a couple tires, a new wiring harness for the car radio, rebuilt the 4speed, starter/alternator work, fixed the generator in the motorhome, etc., but none that pony'd up any real bucks except the architect.

I've found the following to be true, though:

• when you win, people want to be associated with you. as soon as you find someone interested (usually at the track), schedule a meeting with them as soon as possible to discuss how you and they can mutually benefit each other - don't talk advertising, that's only part of the deal and, frankly, to a business person it sounds a bit one-sided.
• get yourself some "hero" cards made and pass them out any chance you get. make sure there's some contact info somewhere on the card. and don't forget to have a handful of business cards on you at all times with your team name and contact info.
• if you don't have a website, get one (you'd be surprised how well it goes over when you add a link and logo for those that help you with the paint, the lettering, the wrecking yard, etc. they eat it up and it gives them a reference .. which leads back to you.) I've done a few websites and can give some pointers there...
• try to get your car (and driver) into car shows .. this is a focused event that will naturally run hundreds of people past your driver and your car .. be ready to make an appointment "to talk". the reason you're at the show is to find a sponsor, but they don't have to know that...
• organize a mini show to help promote your class at the local track. talk to the big box stores in the area about using part of their parking lot. sometimes a mall will be open to putting some race cars on display for a few days (winter months after Christmas are the best time for them) either of these will draw lots of passer-bys and ya never know who may be passing by...
• and finally, network, network, network...

NEVER discuss business anywhere but at your meeting. leave the time at the track, car show, mall, etc. for general conversation and scheduling the followup meeting. and always have a card on you...if they don't, take one of your cards and write their number on the back and call them within 3 days to schedule or confirm the meeting.

the big DON'T is: DON'T focus on them advertising on your car. focus on finding out what they would like to see happen if you joined forces, then explore ways how both you and they can work together to make it happen. always be as flexible as possible and POSITIVE. you may have to give a little to get a lot .. just don't give away the farm...

hope this helps .. sponsors are everywhere .. some just don't know they're gonna be a sponsor...

[Racer Duck]

a follow up...

if you already have a potential sponsor .. the main thing to do is find out what they want (you already know what you want) .. they may not have thought about getting anything in return except their name on the side of your car. who knows, maybe they would really like to "jump in with both feet"!

also, you might think about putting together "packages" where for $100 they get this, for $500 they get this and that, and for $1000 they get a bunch more... tie the size and location of their name on the car to "associate" and "primary" sponsor categories. for instance, a primary sponsor would get their name on the team uniform (bowling shirts are inexpensive and monogramming is also...the cost is included in the sponsorship package) and their logo/name on your "hero" card and their name on the hood and quarter panel. associate sponsor would get their logo/name on your "hero" card and their name on the deck lid.

think about "personal" appearances .. would that be viable for this sponsor?

my son works for a fire alarm company and they buy many of their parts at a particular store. turns out the manager is a car nut... every year he has a mini car show in his parking lot and invites his suppliers to the special showing & BBQ. the year we were there, we had the only SLM, plus there was a legend, a street stock, 2 custom cars, a motorcycle and 2 or 3 super clean street racers. we had to leave early to make it to the race that evening about 80 miles away, but we made a few contacts while we were there .. it was worth our time and we got fed!!!

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by thunderfoot

OK I got a question that I could use some good answers on.

I have run out of my pocket most of my owner/driver career and it doesn't go too well by mid season, if I have a run of bad luck. The money tends to dry up fast. What I want to know is how do I get a money sponsor? I have plenty of sponsors that do the paint, lettering, body parts from the wrecking yard and so on and one to buy a couple sets of tires. But I need money. How do I convince a business owner that he can benefit by advertising on my race car? What can I give to him that would benefit his business, besides a tax write off? I need some ideas here.

T-Foot,

See you're a "left coaster" which kinda makes attendance at one of the seminars by Saxton (see attached link at end of this post) a bit difficult. Might want to see if there is similar in your geography.

Saxton's well known and been successful in the "upper right coast" with both his columns and his sponsorship marketing seminars. As you will see there is available at a fee of course various products (Newsletters, seminars on CD, etc.).

Long time acquaintence of ours has publication (Area Auto Racing News) that Saxton is a regular contributor to. Saxton hosts seminars at the annual AARN Motorsports show and is doing one at the 2008 show for race promoters.

As with anything else, success comes from beatin' the bushes. Real "help" comes from those who are familiar with the right identification, care, and feeding of the fruitfull bushes.

Check out the following.

ERNIE SAXTON COMMUNICATION

[PenelopePitStop]

Ok, brilliant ones! Help me out with this one.

I can't remember if it was last Sunday's race or the race before, but the announcers were talking about transferring points to another driver for 2008. I don't remember the circumstance or the driver. Sorry to be so vague, but I figured you guys would know exactly what I'm talking about.

Are these "owner", "manufacturer" points (whatever that is)? I know it can't be driver points. They all start at zero, right? And how can points be carried over from year to year. I can understand the past-champion provisional thing, but I just don't get how any points can carry over.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Ok, brilliant ones! Help me out with this one.

I can't remember if it was last Sunday's race or the race before, but the announcers were talking about transferring points to another driver for 2008. I don't remember the circumstance or the driver. Sorry to be so vague, but I figured you guys would know exactly what I'm talking about.

Are these "owner", "manufacturer" points (whatever that is)? I know it can't be driver points. They all start at zero, right? And how can points be carried over from year to year. I can understand the past-champion provisional thing, but I just don't get how any points can carry over.

Likely it was the Penske team where talk has been around transferring owner points from Kurt Busch to Hornish so he has guaranteed start spot for first 5 races.

You're right, it's not driver points and indeed they start at zero. Owner points can be transferred to drivers within the team, and I believe it even gets more convoluted when a team is acquired by another team. Owner points carry over from the previous season for the first 5 races. It's all part of the "top 35" thing that gets many folks shorts in a tight knot.

Now there is indeed a "manufacturers Championship/award" presented at seasons end. Never really cared enough about this personally to invest the time to understand. Figure it has something to do with some kind of points associated with finishing places in races over the season. No team or driver really gets any competitive advantage so far as guaranteed starts, points, whatever. More cash perhaps from the manufacturer to the most helpful team and driver, but don't really KNOW the facts around this. Or care for that matter.

Driver points associated with their championship is pretty much the limit of our caring here. Course with the new Consolation Event (Chase) approach, even that makes us yawn more frequently.

Now expect the/some real NASCAR bean counter type will give ya the nitty gritty details of all of the driver, owner, manufacturers, awards. Spiced with some opinion wanna bet?

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Likely it was the Penske team where talk has been around transferring owner points from Kurt Busch to Hornish so he has guaranteed start spot for first 5 races.

Can you please elaborate on that? Why would Penske transfer points to Hornish? Sorry, but is Hornish another Penske driver? I don't follow that stuff all too closely. And if Penske earned the points due to Busch, why can he just transfer them over to another driver? Doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Owner points can be transferred to drivers within the team, and I believe it even gets more convoluted when a team is acquired by another team.

I guess that answers my previous question ... still doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Owner points carry over from the previous season for the first 5 races. It's all part of the "top 35" thing that gets many folks shorts in a tight knot.

First 5 races? What happens after that? My brain hurts!

So ... if I'm in the Chosen Top-35 at the end of 2007, I will start 2008 still within the Chosen? Hardly fair, wouldn't you say?

This all reminds me of the lyrics of Don Henley ... "The more I know, the less I understand."

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Can you please elaborate on that? Why would Penske transfer points to Hornish? Sorry, but is Hornish another Penske driver? I don't follow that stuff all too closely. And if Penske earned the points due to Busch, why can he just transfer them over to another driver? Doesn't make any sense.



I guess that answers my previous question ... still doesn't make any sense.



First 5 races? What happens after that? My brain hurts!

So ... if I'm in the Chosen Top-35 at the end of 2007, I will start 2008 still within the Chosen? Hardly fair, wouldn't you say?

This all reminds me of the lyrics of Don Henley ... "The more I know, the less I understand."

First 5 races? What happens after that? - actual points earned in the new season are then what counts.

So ... if I'm in the Chosen Top-35 at the end of 2007, I will start 2008 still within the Chosen? - Correct.

Learned way too long ago that ya make your own "fair" cause if ya wait for it -----

One of these days I gotta look up just when the "35" thing began, and maybe more importantly get the "from the horses mouth" exactly what the full purpose/intent was. Maybe there is some iota of "sense" and "fair" within. I simply do not know.

There were times I could actually be found to be somewhat inclined towards/in favor of it (The 35). Maybe during the initial declines of some of the (to me) cornerstone teams in the sport (RYR as one) that I felt it OK to "protect" for a time while they struggled to get their feet back under them due to their long time commitment and investment to the sport. But that's a "long-timer" view that perhaps is outdated. At the very least, wouldn't mind perhaps a drop to "25" just to weed out some "hangers on" and to open more opportunity for the "up and coming".

The "fastest" only approach often encouraged/wished for will likely have little to no impact on the top tier teams, say perhaps the top 4 - 6. Yeah they may miss a race or two or three, but likely will still bury the others.

The answer for me - think I'll just watch and enjoy the race amongst those in it and let all the "shoulda, woulda, coulda's" to the brainiacs.

[bears9]

What will number of the Yates Car was formerly the 88 be.

Who will sponsor the 01, 38, and 40

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by bears9

What will number of the Yates Car was formerly the 88 be.

Who will sponsor the 01, 38, and 40

The 88 is rumored to be replaced by the 28. I'm sure the driver takin over the 40 is bringin his own sponsor. As for the 01 and 38, it will probably be announced in the off season.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

First 5 races? What happens after that? - actual points earned in the new season are then what counts.

One last clarification on this topic, please.

So, at the 6th race, all the owner points that were carried over from the previous year are wiped off the board? Hypothetically, and I'm pulling these numbers out my butt ...

I'm in The Chosen at the end of 2007, with owner points of 250.

250 owner points start me off in the 2008 season, keeping me in The Chosen.

During the first 5 races of 2008, I don't qualify on speed, and I start the races 35th solely due to owner points from 2007. My actual qualifying speed was dead last.

Let's say qualifying on speed dead last earned me zero owner points for the first 5 races.

At the 6th race, all 250 owner points from 2007 are now wiped away, and I'm left with zero.

Again, the numbers are hypothetical, but is this how it works?

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

One last clarification on this topic, please.

So, at the 6th race, all the owner points that were carried over from the previous year are wiped off the board? Hypothetically, and I'm pulling these numbers out my butt ...

I'm in The Chosen at the end of 2007, with owner points of 250.

250 owner points start me off in the 2008 season, keeping me in The Chosen.

During the first 5 races of 2008, I don't qualify on speed, and I start the races 35th solely due to owner points from 2007. My actual qualifying speed was dead last.

Let's say qualifying on speed dead last earned me zero owner points for the first 5 races.

At the 6th race, all 250 owner points from 2007 are now wiped away, and I'm left with zero.

Again, the numbers are hypothetical, but is this how it works?

ya got it! the actual numbers are a bit different, but ya got the basics.

just to clear up something so nobody else gets the wrong idea: when you make an attempt at qualifying but don't make the race, you still receive owner's points (but not driver points) .. just take the race points for 43rd and subtract 3 per position and stop at 1 point (the minimum you can earn for a qualification attempt.)

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

ya got it! the actual numbers are a bit different, but ya got the basics.

just to clear up something so nobody else gets the wrong idea: when you make an attempt at qualifying but don't make the race, you still receive owner's points (but not driver points) .. just take the race points for 43rd and subtract 3 per position and stop at 1 point (the minimum you can earn for a qualification attempt.)

I knew my numbers were wrong, but I get the formula!

Thanks ... I think ... what a farce!

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

I knew my numbers were wrong, but I get the formula!

Thanks ... I think ... what a farce!

Oh, wait!

Going back to ...

"During the first 5 races of 2008, I don't qualify on speed, and I start the races 35th solely due to owner points from 2007. My actual qualifying speed was dead last."

Do I get the owner points for "starting" 35th, or owner points for my actual qualifying speed of dead last, if there are any points for that? Please don't tell me that I get owner points for starting 35th. First 5 races or not!

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Oh, wait!

Going back to ...

"During the first 5 races of 2008, I don't qualify on speed, and I start the races 35th solely due to owner points from 2007. My actual qualifying speed was dead last."

Do I get the owner points for "starting" 35th, or owner points for my actual qualifying speed of dead last, if there are any points for that? Please don't tell me that I get owner points for starting 35th. First 5 races or not!

oh, now you want to get technical!

ok, here goes. this is only my understanding of the actual process and may not truly reflect reality.

the race lineup is by qualifying speed, with the top 35 arranged according to their speed with a few exceptions: 1) if there is a past Cup Champion who failed to qualify on speed and is not one of the top 35, they will get 43rd spot; 2) if the defending winner of the race did not qualify and is not in the top 35, he/she gets spot 42; the remaining 6 spots are filled by the fastest non-top 35. as happened this year, a non-top 35 car can qualify on the pole and the top 10 can be filled with non-top 35 cars forcing the top 35 cars to start behind the non-top 35 cars.

using your scenario, your driver would start those 5 races in 43rd, 42nd or 41st depending on the past champ & defending winner provisionals and would get owner and driver points corresponding to his/her finish (only the non-qualifiers get points for qualifying attempts.)

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

oh, now you want to get technical!

ok, here goes. this is only my understanding of the actual process and may not truly reflect reality.

the race lineup is by qualifying speed, with the top 35 arranged according to their speed with a few exceptions: 1) if there is a past Cup Champion who failed to qualify on speed and is not one of the top 35, they will get 43rd spot; 2) if the defending winner of the race did not qualify and is not in the top 35, he/she gets spot 42; the remaining 6 spots are filled by the fastest non-top 35. as happened this year, a non-top 35 car can qualify on the pole and the top 10 can be filled with non-top 35 cars forcing the top 35 cars to start behind the non-top 35 cars.

using your scenario, your driver would start those 5 races in 43rd, 42nd or 41st depending on the past champ & defending winner provisionals and would get owner and driver points corresponding to his/her finish (only the non-qualifiers get points for qualifying attempts.)

Yes, I get all that.

I think I was confusing "when" the owner points are awarded. If I qualify dead last, but start 35th due to owner points, owner points, I don't actually get owner points based on where I start the race, but where I finish. I got ahead of myself.

I don't even want to attempt to understand "only the non-qualifiers get points for qualifying attempts". Making my head spin!

Thanks for the info.