[Bob Tanner]

Lets see... This is the thrid week of the season and probably the second rainout, with the starting field set from last year's owner's points. Daytona's field wasn't set totally be qualifying but by finished in the Twin 125's.

This means that multiple teams can virtually just throw in the towel because, due to factors beyond their control they are three races behind their peers, in points.

Quick! Someone tell me again just how fair, just and correct this damn Chosen Rule is.

!#@***&$#!@ Chosen Rule! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Lets see... This is the thrid week of the season and probably the second rainout, with the starting field set from last year's owner's points. Daytona's field wasn't set totally be qualifying but by finished in the Twin 125's.

This means that multiple teams can virtually just throw in the towel because, due to factors beyond their control they are three races behind their peers, in points.

Quick! Someone tell me again just how fair, just and correct this damn Chosen Rule is.

!#@***&$#!@ Chosen Rule! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

Looks like someone needs a nap I feel the same way Bob

[BiscuitMan]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Quick! Someone tell me again just how fair, just and correct this damn Chosen Rule is.

!#@***&$#!@ Chosen Rule! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

It's about as fair as the Super Delegate concept.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by BiscuitMan

It's about as fair as the Super Delegate concept.

Because of that I'm thinking Denver might not be a good place to be, this coming August. I lived in Chicago in 1968 and remember it well.

[bob101]

How do you figure "totally out of their control"?

I mean they can't stop the rain but you better finish good when you get a chance to run. Or have run better than last year.

I have no sympathy for teams like Kyle Petty that are 40th in points that will get into the race on a rainout qualifying but most probably fail to break the top 35.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by bob101

How do you figure "totally out of their control"?

I mean they can't stop the rain but you better finish good when you get a chance to run. Or have run better than last year.

I have no sympathy for teams like Kyle Petty that are 40th in points that will get into the race on a rainout qualifying but most probably fail to break the top 35.

As powerful and rich as some of these teams might be, the weather is totally out of their control. Yes they probably have more control over the races they do run but ZERO control over the ones that they can't run due to Mommy Nature.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by bob101

How do you figure "totally out of their control"?

I mean they can't stop the rain but you better finish good when you get a chance to run. Or have run better than last year.

I have no sympathy for teams like Kyle Petty that are 40th in points that will get into the race on a rainout qualifying but most probably fail to break the top 35.

Absolutely zero control over weather. Marginal control over finishing high in a race, especially at Daytona. Plus there were only three spots available in the Twin 125's.

I like your statement, "...you better finish good when you get a chance to run." Let's look at that one, shall we?

The teams NOT in The Chosen do NOT come to the track each week with the main purpose of "finishing good." They come to the track with the main purpose of just qualifying! You don't "finish good" unless you have a good race set up. These poor schmoes are working on their qualifying set ups! Them if the make the race they usually just "hang out," hoping that they stay out of trouble and that the attrition will be enough that they'll get the "good finish" you describe.

Fair? The Chosen Rule isn't even close to being "fair!" OK, I know... "Fair" is where you get funnel cakes and ride the ferris wheel. I'll change my last statement, The Chosen Rule isn't even close to being unprejudiced!

NA__AR, in its infinite wisdom, has managed to create a caste system, with two distinct classes of entrants. One class can concern itself with winning. Class two concerns itself mainly with qualifying, with racing as a virtual after thought.

Like you I have no pity for Petty or any of the teams. They chose to play in the sandbox they're playing in and no one holds a gun to their collective heads and makes them stay. But that sandbox, the way NASCAR runs it, has all the good, clean sand at one end (for the Top 35) and the sand with all the cat crap in it at the other (for the Non-Chosen).

Maybe I'm just a very basic and idealistic old country boy but it sure don't seem like the best thing since Hooters to me.

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by BiscuitMan

It's about as fair as the Super Delegate concept.

Damn. Those two concepts in the same thread could crash this site!

Step away from the keyboard!!

[bob101]

Why the rants on not being fair? If you want fair you better look elsewhere. NASCAR is business and I don't remember anyone saying business was fair.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by bob101

Why the rants on not being fair? If you want fair you better look elsewhere. NASCAR is business and I don't remember anyone saying business was fair.

I would suggest to you that you might try and curb what you expect from other members. Those that post here are content to do so. If you are not or if you are not pleased with the content of our posters you need not post. This post could easily be seen as bashing other members.

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by bob101

Why the rants on not being fair? If you want fair you better look elsewhere. NASCAR is business and I don't remember anyone saying business was fair.

I was actually referring to bringing up politics in any way!

That is always a sure way to stir up a lot of crap. I would just think it wiser to leave that reference out of it, that's all.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I would suggest to you that you might try and curb what you expect from other members. Those that post here are content to do so. If you are not or if you are not pleased with the content of our posters you need not post. This post could easily be seen as bashing other members.

Not me, Steve. Bob101 (Not Bob T.) is just coming at this from a new generation position. I'm guessing here but I would presume that what he expects out of NA__AR differs quite a bit from what you and I expect out of it. What bob101's post does, for me anyway, is to accentuate the difference in generations.

He is right. NA__AR has little concept of "Fair." Fair is where you find funnel cakes and Ferris Wheels.

He's eloquently stating a position and NOT spewing the "drive-by poster" drivel, such as "[Insert driver] SUX!!!"

[BiscuitMan]

Originally Posted by Phils20

I was actually referring to bringing up politics in any way!

That is always a sure way to stir up a lot of crap. I would just think it wiser to leave that reference out of it, that's all.

Phils, your comment to bob101's reference to NASCAR being a business and that no one expects business to be fair. Most of these posts really question the "fairness" of NASCAR's business decisions and how they interprete and apply their rules. The "Chosen 35" rule applied at Bristol is last years finishing order in points. Personally, I don't see why NASCAR does not use the "current points standings" to determine the starting order when qualifying is rained out. I look upon this rule as be "unfair" and several others on this forum believe the same thing.

I responded to Bob Tanner when he posted a question as follows "Quick! Someone tell me again just how fair, just and correct this damn Chosen Rule is." I responded that "It's about as fair as the Super Delegate concept". I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my statement because it did cause several people to comment and then you bringing it to our attending that this forum is not a place for politics. Please accept my apologies.

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by BiscuitMan

Phils, your comment to bob101's reference to NASCAR being a business and that no one expects business to be fair. Most of these posts really question the "fairness" of NASCAR's business decisions and how they interprete and apply their rules. The "Chosen 35" rule applied at Bristol is last years finishing order in points. Personally, I don't see why NASCAR does not use the "current points standings" to determine the starting order when qualifying is rained out. I look upon this rule as be "unfair" and several others on this forum believe the same thing.

I responded to Bob Tanner when he posted a question as follows "Quick! Someone tell me again just how fair, just and correct this damn Chosen Rule is." I responded that "It's about as fair as the Super Delegate concept". I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my statement because it did cause several people to comment and then you bringing it to our attending that this forum is not a place for politics. Please accept my apologies.

I don't know that an apology is in order! Just something to keep in mind.

Oh, and I agree completely that they should just set the race by this years point for a rain out! After this week, they will. But that still makes this week stink!

Heck I just wanted to see qualifying! I was off today, and looking forward to seeing a day of track events!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by bob101

Why the rants on not being fair? If you want fair you better look elsewhere. NASCAR is business and I don't remember anyone saying business was fair.

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Not me, Steve. Bob101 (Not Bob T.) is just coming at this from a new generation position. I'm guessing here but I would presume that what he expects out of NA__AR differs quite a bit from what you and I expect out of it. What bob101's post does, for me anyway, is to accentuate the difference in generations.

He is right. NA__AR has little concept of "Fair." Fair is where you find funnel cakes and Ferris Wheels.

He's eloquently stating a position and NOT spewing the "drive-by poster" drivel, such as "[Insert driver] SUX!!!"

I agree with much of what you are saying Bob (T). bob101 isn't a drive by (sux) poster but my comments are more about what is highlighted. If I want fair, that is a vision I have and I believe we are allowed to have that vision without anyone telling other members that "you better look elsewhere". Much of what is written in these forums is based on either fact or opinion, neither of which should be seen as offensive by other members.