[bears9]

You guys are right, most of the new open wheel guys are just on bad teams. You can't blame Jacques Villeneuve because Bill Davis put together an awful second teams. Carpentier, the 10 is running just as bad as it did last year with Riggs in it.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by bears9

You guys are right, most of the new open wheel guys are just on bad teams. You can't blame Jacques Villeneuve because Bill Davis put together an awful second teams. Carpentier, the 10 is running just as bad as it did last year with Riggs in it.

Part of the problem could be sponsorship dollars. Even the top teams have more than one big sponsor. If "Big Company Inc." isn't going to be getting TV exposure then they spend less. If they spend less "Joe's Motor Sports" cannot attract the top drivers.

With the success of Montoya it is entirely possible that some owners see a new vain of popularity and skill. I'm sure there is more than just one or two simple answers to this problem.

[Bob Tanner]

I know that its just me but I respectfully have a problem with the way this thread is presented.

There are two very different types of "open wheel racers."

Most are fixated on the rear engined open wheel drivers like Juan Pablo, Hornish, Franchitti, Almendinger, Carpentier, Scott Speed, et.al. These guys have had problems instantly adapting to stock cars. As someone stated, the apparent ease and speed Montoya did it makes his success all the more remarkable and impressive. If you will remember, Tony Stewart was also a rear-engined driver before he came to stock cars. His transition wasn't nearly as smooth or as significant as JPM's.

Then you have the "American" open wheel drivers. The ones who come from WoO, USAC, Modifieds. Ryan Newman, Dave Blaney, Mike Bliss, J.J. Yeley, Jeff Gordon, Carl Edwards, Kasey Kahne, the Bodine Brothers, Jimmy Spencer.

Their varying degrees of success seemed to come a lot quicker.

Then you have the off-road open-wheelers. Robby Gordon, Casey Mears and Jimmy Johnson. Some struggle but a lot of notoriety and success.

My point is that this term "Open Wheelers" is, to me, kind of misleading. I take it as journalistic shorthand for, "Comes from something other than traditional stock cars."

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I know that its just me but I respectfully have a problem with the way this thread is presented.

There are two very different types of "open wheel racers."

Most are fixated on the rear engined open wheel drivers like Juan Pablo, Hornish, Franchitti, Almendinger, Carpentier, Scott Speed, et.al. These guys have had problems instantly adapting to stock cars. As someone stated, the apparent ease and speed Montoya did it makes his success all the more remarkable and impressive. If you will remember, Tony Stewart was also a rear-engined driver before he came to stock cars. His transition wasn't nearly as smooth or as significant as JPM's.

Then you have the "American" open wheel drivers. The ones who come from WoO, USAC, Modifieds. Ryan Newman, Dave Blaney, Mike Bliss, J.J. Yeley, Jeff Gordon, Carl Edwards, Kasey Kahne, the Bodine Brothers, Jimmy Spencer.

Their varying degrees of success seemed to come a lot quicker.

Then you have the off-road open-wheelers. Robby Gordon, Casey Mears and Jimmy Johnson. Some struggle but a lot of notoriety and success.

My point is that this term "Open Wheelers" is, to me, kind of misleading. I take it as journalistic shorthand for, "Comes from something other than traditional stock cars."

I just had an "AAH HAA!" moment. This is the sentiment I have been trying to put into words for years but you just did it far better than I ever could. I think the distinction you make between various types on "open wheeler's" is very significant. It's easy to lump all those cars together but the differences are huge.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I know that its just me but I respectfully have a problem with the way this thread is presented.

There are two very different types of "open wheel racers."

Most are fixated on the rear engined open wheel drivers like Juan Pablo, Hornish, Franchitti, Almendinger, Carpentier, Scott Speed, et.al. These guys have had problems instantly adapting to stock cars. As someone stated, the apparent ease and speed Montoya did it makes his success all the more remarkable and impressive. If you will remember, Tony Stewart was also a rear-engined driver before he came to stock cars. His transition wasn't nearly as smooth or as significant as JPM's.

Then you have the "American" open wheel drivers. The ones who come from WoO, USAC, Modifieds. Ryan Newman, Dave Blaney, Mike Bliss, J.J. Yeley, Jeff Gordon, Carl Edwards, Kasey Kahne, the Bodine Brothers, Jimmy Spencer.

Their varying degrees of success seemed to come a lot quicker.

Then you have the off-road open-wheelers. Robby Gordon, Casey Mears and Jimmy Johnson. Some struggle but a lot of notoriety and success.

My point is that this term "Open Wheelers" is, to me, kind of misleading. I take it as journalistic shorthand for, "Comes from something other than traditional stock cars."

Excellent! And gotta add a point learned from involvement/experience.

Rear engine vs. front engine is so different from a static and dynamic set up and compensating adjustment standpoint, that it is headspinning. Add to this "set up minus driver" and then "plus driver WITH driver left mount (Stock Car) vs. center mount (IRL/F1)", and it gets truly impressive when one (driver) makes a successful (relative) transition from rear engine to front engine AND is able to provide meaningful feedback on required adjustment early on.

We started out rear engine set up efforts. Thought we really knew our stuff. Got involved with front engine. Found out how lacking in all around knowledge we really were. Two different worlds. Helps us appreciate JPM more than others may be able.

Good observations Mr. T. Real good.