[simple simon]

Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon need to be fined and suspended .... yeah you read it right

their actions cost drivers potential wins ... points .... money and who knows what else this weekend in two separate races

Martin spun another driver for the win in the Nationwide race .. how disgraceful

Gordon's stupid rookie like mistake cost Matt Kenseth a certain top 5 finish and maybe the win ...... luckily JG also took himself out of the race

they should both be fined and suspended to the max .... then put on double secret probation for the rest of the season

oh wait .... i forgot ......... we only speak of such things happening when it is Montoya causing the wreck ....... seems to have slipped my mind .. when Martin and Gordon do it it's just one of those racin' deals

[Phils20]

I think Carl Edwards should have the win taken away! His team should have been penalized for having that tire go out in the grass!

It's a conspiracy by NASCAR to let Fords win! We all know Mike Helton loves the Fords!

I want a recount!

[Team Yates]

Hey that move by Gordo, it took my guy from 10th to 8th, so I am not complaining!! But if you want to still put Gordo on probation, I got no problem with that either!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by simple simon

Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon need to be fined and suspended .... yeah you read it right

their actions cost drivers potential wins ... points .... money and who knows what else this weekend in two separate races

Martin spun another driver for the win in the Nationwide race .. how disgraceful

Gordon's stupid rookie like mistake cost Matt Kenseth a certain top 5 finish and maybe the win ...... luckily JG also took himself out of the race

they should both be fined and suspended to the max .... then put on double secret probation for the rest of the season

oh wait .... i forgot ......... we only speak of such things happening when it is Montoya causing the wreck ....... seems to have slipped my mind .. when Martin and Gordon do it it's just one of those racin' deals

A little bit upset by the anti-Montoya discussion, are we? Fighting back with a dose of [justified] righteous irony? I feel your pain, Simon.

What worries me is it almost seems as though Juan has also heard the criticism and now is just hanging in there and staying under every one's radar. Speaking only for myself, that's not the Juan Montoya we saw about this time last year. He's rapidly becoming a non-factor, which might please some but it irritates the Hell out of me. I'm not exactly a JPM fan but I want to see every driver drive to his potential. Juan hasn't shown me much of that this season.

Just my thoughts and I could be very, very wrong...

[NASCAR Gnome]

Simon, watch, on Tuesday this week, NASCAR will announce that Juan Pablo Montoya is somehow RESPONSIBLE for Jeff Gordon sliding into Kenseth and Mark Martin taking out Cousin Carl on Saturday!

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by NASCAR Gnome

Simon, watch, on Tuesday this week, NASCAR will announce that Juan Pablo Montoya is somehow RESPONSIBLE for Jeff Gordon sliding into Kenseth and Mark Martin taking out Cousin Carl on Saturday!

watching all the tire failures they had during the race i figured JPM must have had it in with Goodyear

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by simple simon

watching all the tire failures they had during the race i figured JPM must have had it in with Goodyear

Now the tires are the big story of the week. Funny how it's never the tires fault. There were a lot of blown tires, in both series this week!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

A little bit upset by the anti-Montoya discussion, are we? Fighting back with a dose of [justified] righteous irony? I feel your pain, Simon.

What worries me is it almost seems as though Juan has also heard the criticism and now is just hanging in there and staying under every one's radar. Speaking only for myself, that's not the Juan Montoya we saw about this time last year. He's rapidly becoming a non-factor, which might please some but it irritates the Hell out of me. I'm not exactly a JPM fan but I want to see every driver drive to his potential. Juan hasn't shown me much of that this season.

Just my thoughts and I could be very, very wrong...

Speaking only for myself I am not (believe it or not) anti Montoya. I've said many times over that I'm content with whoever wins the race. I also dislike only a few drivers. Dislike meaning hate .... I just don't like that word. I do not like JP's attitude. He has an above average desire to win and he may have the ability. He just hasn't proven to me that he is above average in his ability ..... yet.

His seemingly "under the radar" showings at this point may have more to do with the car than his ability/desire to be better. Several times that I noticed him today he was sliding all over the track. If that isn't a car issue then it speaks volumes of his ability. My bet is the car just wasn't what was needed. Even JJ had that problem today.

The cries coming from the JPM camp sound like the ones that used to come from the Gordon camp. When he proves himself the criticism will subside.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

The cries coming from the JPM camp

now im the leader of a camp eh ?

am i an evil dictator type of leader ?

[SteelPhoenyx]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Speaking only for myself I am not (believe it or not) anti Montoya. I've said many times over that I'm content with whoever wins the race. I also dislike only a few drivers. Dislike meaning hate .... I just don't like that word. I do not like JP's attitude. He has an above average desire to win and he may have the ability. He just hasn't proven to me that he is above average in his ability ..... yet.

His seemingly "under the radar" showings at this point may have more to do with the car than his ability/desire to be better. Several times that I noticed him today he was sliding all over the track. If that isn't a car issue then it speaks volumes of his ability. My bet is the car just wasn't what was needed. Even JJ had that problem today.

The cries coming from the JPM camp sound like the ones that used to come from the Gordon camp. When he proves himself the criticism will subside.

For the most part, my sentiments exactly. I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt at the beginning of last year, but he quickly lost my respect. He has yet to prove himself in my eyes.

Hey, it could happen. I used to despise Kyle Busch, but I find myself reluctantly liking the kid. He's maturing.

If it makes me seem biased in others' eyes that I'm not livid pissed at Jeff Gordon for causing Matt Kenseth to slide and almost wreck, getting a 20th instead of a top 5 or 10 finish, so be it. But Jeff Gordon has proved himself time and again on the track. Same goes for Mark Martin. JPM hasn't. Not to me, at least.

[CarlFanFromOZ]

Carl Edwards wasnt upset with Mark Martin so why are you?, he even said so on a couple of occasions. Most of us have watched enough Nascar to know that Mark isnt the type to take someone out for a win so any suggestion that it was a purposeful move is ridculous. Watch the replay from onboard JG's car, he is clearly peddling the car to try and recover from the slide, comes across as a racing incident to me, all those guys where maximum attack, accidents happen when your 3 wide on the limit.

Quick list of Juan's Resume for those who think he has anything to prove

Kart Junior World Champion
FIA F3000 Champion(record for poles and wins)
CART Champion(as a rookie)
Indy 500 Winner(as a rookie)
Multple Grand Prix Race winner(including Monaco)
Nascar Race winner
Daytona 24 hour winner(twice on the trot)

What else is there...seriously Maybe a LeMan win, but thats about it. Sure he hasnt dominated Nascar but lets be serious if he came to America and wiped the floor in Nascar then it wouldnt say a whole lot for the rest of the guys who have been racing stock cars and oval tracks there whole career would it. Juan rookie campaign was reasonable, he won a race and had several good showings namely Indy where he finished second as well as top 10's at Bristol and Martinsville.

[LSC9901]

Lets look at it from a different perspective. The media has made him a NASCAR giant according to what he has done in other series. So what does he have to prove ???? Probably nothing in reality but to meet the written expectations he needs to become a respected winner. Is he there yet ??? In my corner of the ring ... it hasn't happened. It could .... but it just hasn't happened yet.

[jks812]

I don't believe Mark intentionally wrecked Carl. I also don't believe Jeff hit Matt on purpose. As for JPM, yes he's a champion in another form of racing that has nothing to do with Nascar. I do think he was picking it up pretty good. But as far as proving anything, all he's proved so far is that he'll wreck a team mate to get a win. Get him out of that and I think he'll do real good in Nascar.

[Quality88]

As much as I dislike Jeff Gordon, I know he didn't wreck Matt on purpose, replay clearly shows he lost it.

Mark Martin doesn't wreck people on purpose.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by Quality88

As much as I dislike Jeff Gordon, I know he didn't wreck Matt on purpose, replay clearly shows he lost it.

Mark Martin doesn't wreck people on purpose.

and neither does JPM