[Quality88]

LAS VEGAS -- As he prepared for Saturday's Sam's Town 300 in the Nationwide Series at Las Vegas Motor Speedway, Kevin Harvick said he was feeling outgunned.
Harvick, known mostly for his exploits as a driver in the Sprint Cup Series, also is a part-time driver and full-time car owner on the Nationwide and Craftsman Truck series sides. He said, point blank, that Toyota has more horsepower than everyone else in all three garages and that he believes the difference in power between his Chevrolet engines and Toyota's engines is significant.
"I think everybody in the garage is down on horsepower compared to what the Toyotas are," Harvick said. "In the Nationwide Series, it's almost a joke about how much power they make compared to everybody else. I feel good that our team has made gains in the engine department power-wise, but it's hard when you're racing almost restrictor-plate races every week and you're racing against cars that are making 20-plus more horsepower than you. It's hard to keep up. Hopefully that's the reason we put these inserts in these motors, to keep the fields even.
"Obviously the whole field is not completely stupid. They've been here for a long time, and that particular brand makes more power than everybody else in the garage. That's obviously got something to do with the parts and pieces that they have compared to everybody else."

full story @ NASCAR.COM - Harvick, Roush concerned with Toyota horsepower - Mar 1, 2008

[wardfan]

I guess I'm missing something here. If Toyota can build an engine to meet spects and have 20 more horsepower, what's the problem. That to me means everybody else needs to figure it out too. Ain't that what racing is suppose to be about?

[jks812]

I agree wardfan, if Toyota can do it the rest should be able to. But I guess it's easier to cry about it and try to get Nascar to give them something than it is to work on it themself. And just how outgunned are they considering that Toyota still hasn't won a cup race? But who is surprised that Roush is crying about something.

[Bob Tanner]

Let's see... Toyota's starting to make signs that it can kick some serious butt and Roush and a host of others are shouting, 'UNFAIR!!!"

It's good to see the owners so concerned about a level playing field. Funny thing, though. They weren't complaining last year, in Toyota's behalf, when the engine was acknowledged to be down on high end torque and was getting its keister kicked by Chevies and Fords? I find it ironic that the people who are first to complain about "unfairness," and "level playing fields," are the first to remain silent when the table is tilted their way.

[OrionBen]

Even if they are 20 hp more in cup, they still have to win a race.
And they are last in top 10 with 5 in 3 races compare to 9 for dodge and chevy and 7 for Ford.

The engine may produce more HP, but all the other part count also

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by OrionBen

Even if they are 20 hp more in cup, they still have to win a race.
And they are last in top 10 with 5 in 3 races compare to 9 for dodge and chevy and 7 for Ford.

The engine may produce more HP, but all the other part count also

as we all know, there's hp tracks and there's handling tracks and there's 33 more races this year, some on hp tracks and some on handling tracks. If memory serves, HMS and their chevys were in about the same boat last year at this time...

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Let's see... Toyota's starting to make signs that it can kick some serious butt and Roush and a host of others are shouting, 'UNFAIR!!!"

It's good to see the owners so concerned about a level playing field. Funny thing, though. They weren't complaining last year, in Toyota's behalf, when the engine was acknowledged to be down on high end torque and was getting its keister kicked by Chevies and Fords? I find it ironic that the people who are first to complain about "unfairness," and "level playing fields," are the first to remain silent when the table is tilted their way.

Big Yup/agree to that.

Couple additional observations.

Noticed: There was no complaining, begging for quarter, or seeking help from the governing body that was obvious from Toyo last year. It was always something to the effect - we knew it would be tough, and we've got to get to work.

Have wondered: Since Roush above all others it seemed was expressing concern about Toyo's ability to develop quickly (his focus was on the money element), if perhaps he saw someting less than stellar effort and results by one of his own partners (oh say as a random example - his engine masters), or perhaps even concern over the viability of Ford


Actually things look kinda close amongst the brands just now. Always felt perhaps one of the most significant pieces missing in the Toyo puzzle last year was race proven chassis. When they got Gibbs, that piece of the puzzle was found. Give me a chassis that can get the most of the available power to the track (as compared to my competitors) over an extra couple HP near every time. Give me both, and the other guys are in for some long race days.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Big Yup/agree to that.

Couple additional observations.

Noticed: There was no complaining, begging for quarter, or seeking help from the governing body that was obvious from Toyo last year. It was always something to the effect - we knew it would be tough, and we've got to get to work.

Have wondered: Since Roush above all others it seemed was expressing concern about Toyo's ability to develop quickly (his focus was on the money element), if perhaps he saw someting less than stellar effort and results by one of his own partners (oh say as a random example - his engine masters), or perhaps even concern over the viability of Ford


Actually things look kinda close amongst the brands just now. Always felt perhaps one of the most significant pieces missing in the Toyo puzzle last year was race proven chassis. When they got Gibbs, that piece of the puzzle was found. Give me a chassis that can get the most of the available power to the track (as compared to my competitors) over an extra couple HP near every time. Give me both, and the other guys are in for some long race days.

Something came up this year, well, actually late last season, that's put a smile on our faces around the race car shop. Seems a certain sanctioning body allowed, and will allow, the use of our "good" SLM engine with a 100 lb penalty. "Well," you say, "a hundert pounds is a bunch! Why're ya so happy?" Seems their rules call for a crate like motor: about 450 HP. Ours is a 9:1 sucking thru a VDL massaged 390: about 650 HP. So we get to use that extra 200 HP to pull around a hundert pounds! Seems like a pretty good trade to me! So, we're thrashing to re-assemble the beast for a mid-April race (right now it's just a body and cage/frame!)

So what does that have to do with this thread?

If there's an extra pony or two just waiting to be unleashed, it will be and those folks who ain't searching for more are gonna get left behind, fast! Now, I'm not saying Roush and friends aren't searching for more ponys, but if 'Yota leap-frogged them and is 20 or more ahead, then the Blue Oval is hurting worse that I thought. It's gonna be interesting to see who has speed when the HP tracks roll around...

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Something came up this year, well, actually late last season, that's put a smile on our faces around the race car shop. Seems a certain sanctioning body allowed, and will allow, the use of our "good" SLM engine with a 100 lb penalty. "Well," you say, "a hundert pounds is a bunch! Why're ya so happy?" Seems their rules call for a crate like motor: about 450 HP. Ours is a 9:1 sucking thru a VDL massaged 390: about 650 HP. So we get to use that extra 200 HP to pull around a hundert pounds! Seems like a pretty good trade to me! So, we're thrashing to re-assemble the beast for a mid-April race (right now it's just a body and cage/frame!

Wow Dog, (as in "Lucky").

+HP with the opportunity we're assuming, to place static weight where desired.

Gotta guess you're focusing some attention/effort/recording of results associated with just where and how that additional weight placement appears to impact travels and transfers. Seems we'd be first inclined towards "smile" as well.

Do the homework, assume nothing, build in flexibility.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Wow Dog, (as in "Lucky").

+HP with the opportunity we're assuming, to place static weight where desired.

Gotta guess you're focusing some attention/effort/recording of results associated with just where and how that additional weight placement appears to impact travels and transfers. Seems we'd be first inclined towards "smile" as well.

Do the homework, assume nothing, build in flexibility.

if you know anything about SLM's you know there's lots and lots of places to "legally" place weight.

as soon as everything is assembled, the old Pontiac gets to spend a few days on the scales while we get her "perfectly proportioned". Then a couple test sessions to make sure everything is as anticipated (it hardly ever is, you know) and adjust accordingly. Then final clean up, load up and off to the races!