[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Under part five I still fail to see how Jenkins' team made the field. From the records I see Jenkins (Front Row) had eight attempts and Red Bull #84 had 36 - The beginning of the unraveling of this is likely in the "current season" element of part five. That, I think (I know, large danger there), eliminates the "36" for Red Bull as a consideration. Remember - I think.

Would be interesting to have one in the know explain the reason/thoughts behind this "first 5 race" approach to setting the field. Obviously the "35" thing is clear in there (like it or not), but some of the "last years winners not already in the 35", and/or "previous champions not already in the 35", etc. -----

Oh well, race on!

My Gawd! Even you aren't absolutely sure? (Or, at least that's how I read your post).

Just another example of the distaint NA__AR holds its fans in. They treat us like mushrooms; we're kept in the dark and fed crap in hopes we'll turn into something profitable.

This is sickening; I can't help but think Big Bill France would roll over in his grave or sell his offspring to a band of wandering gypsies, just to keep them from hosing up his sport as they have managed to do.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

My Gawd! Even you aren't absolutely sure? (Or, at least that's how I read your post).

Just another example of the distaint NA__AR holds its fans in. They treat us like mushrooms; we're kept in the dark and fed crap in hopes we'll turn into something profitable.

This is sickening; I can't help but think Big Bill France would roll over in his grave or sell his offspring to a band of wandering gypsies, just to keep them from hosing up his sport as they have managed to do.

Or, at least that's how I read your post - Oh - oh! I typed it understandably. You could read it with understanding! Where's the fun in that?

In any case you are correct. Was totally unaware of a "first five races" thing, although I suppose were one to really think about it, there had to be something to address it. Would we claim full understanding of the approach and reasons behind? - No


Gotta say though that simply taking this post string, go back to the opening post. The "controvery" throughout this whole string/post/whatever is not due to hidden, obscure, or unavailable definition from the governing body (like them or not) of how line ups would be handled, but the reporting of some Medidiot (Speed is referenced), or a misunderstanding of what was actually said by a member of the audience. Watch as it turns in to (paraphrasing) - "NASCAR bad", NASCAR will be sued", NASCAR stupid". Amazing. Oh by the way - the sky is falling.



Tongue going deep in to cheek here (the following). Real deep.

Ya know, thinking about it, there actually was one time in our life that we were clearly wrong. Yup, remember it clearly now - it was the time we actually thought we were wrong.

[bob101]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I read that. I must be the dumbest reader here. Under part five I still fail to see how Jenkins' team made the field. From the records I see Jenkins (Front Row) had eight attempts and Red Bull #84 had 36?

I'm not the brightest light in the harbor but I'm sure a long way from being the dimest. Any rule this confusing needs to be changed!

It's attempts in the current year which is 2008. That means the Daytona 500 and Fontana currently. Not last year.

The reason they throw in previous years winners is the same reason they throw in past champions and that they throw in winner of the same event - in the post 5 race deal.

Money, people show up at a race and expect to see people they know. If driver XXX won last year they want to see that same driver at least in the show.

Doesn't make it right but that's why they do it. Money.

You really think Bill france would turn over in his grave? Really? Come on this stuff has been happening since day one.

In the first Daytona 500 Bill personally paid out of his pocket for some drivers who showed up to cut the top off their car so that the field would evenly be split between hardtops and convertibles. They knew convertibles were slower so France paid them cash to make the field even - that's where we get the 2 short dual races from at Daytona - one used to be hardtops and one convertibles. How is that for qualifying? France used to pay people to crappy up thier car and they took the cash instead of a chance to win.....

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by bob101

It's attempts in the current year which is 2008. That means the Daytona 500 and Fontana currently. Not last year.

The reason they throw in previous years winners is the same reason they throw in past champions and that they throw in winner of the same event - in the post 5 race deal.

Money, people show up at a race and expect to see people they know. If driver XXX won last year they want to see that same driver at least in the show.

Doesn't make it right but that's why they do it. Money.

You really think Bill france would turn over in his grave? Really? Come on this stuff has been happening since day one.

In the first Daytona 500 Bill personally paid out of his pocket for some drivers who showed up to cut the top off their car so that the field would evenly be split between hardtops and convertibles. They knew convertibles were slower so France paid them cash to make the field even - that's where we get the 2 short dual races from at Daytona - one used to be hardtops and one convertibles. How is that for qualifying? France used to pay people to crappy up their car and they took the cash instead of a chance to win.....

Not being a driver fan (I could care less if all The Chosen get lost on the way to the track and they pull volunteers out of the stands to race; just as long as they race hard and put on a good show I could care less how many trinkets & trash some driver is responsible for promoting) I still don't get it. But I will give you credit, you took the time to explain it far beyond what you were called to do. Thank you for that, anyway.

You're probably closer to being correct about Big Bill than I. His actions concerning the first Talladega race still stick in my craw. I totally agree with his banning Tim Flock for life, and I still believe my personal favourite driver, Curtis Turner should have joined Tim in his complete exile. However, I think Petty's PDA was the correct answer to Big Bill and his first Talladega contest.

That said, I still am convinced, in my mind, that Big Bill was eons more about racing than his son and his grandson.

[Racer Duck]

Bob, hope you've got it figured out. If not, the last (5th) element is, for the California race, essentially the Daytona 500 results. Nemechek and Andretti are the top finishers from Daytona not in the California race thru rules 1-4, so they get the last spots.

As we all see, and as you mentioned: anything this complicated needs to be simplified. 'Course the easiest simplification (IF "fastest 43 race" is rained out then "line up by driver points") will likely not pass muster in the DIS high rise.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Bob, hope you've got it figured out. If not, the last (5th) element is, for the California race, essentially the Daytona 500 results. Nemechek and Andretti are the top finishers from Daytona not in the California race thru rules 1-4, so they get the last spots..

I am truly sorry but that just makes no sense to this old country boy at all. I understand what you're saying but... I just can not find the key to the logic lock box.

I repeat from another thread... As long as NA__AR promotes stupid rules such as this they have no worry about some driver making a fool out of them. They already have a firm handle on that one.

[bob101]

Look at it this way. If they removed part 5 of that rule for the first 5 races.

No one who did not race last year could possibly make the race.

Say in the 5th race this year qualifying is rained out. You are #36 in points overall this year and did not race at all last year.

You would not make the race and instead it would go to someone who could have finished as low as 40 or worse in points last year.

Personally I like the rule. Not a fan of top 35..but if your going to keep it the first 5 race rule at least gives you multiple avenues to get in.

Be in the top 35 last year.
Be a past champion.
Win a race last year.
Be the best of remaining teams THIS year.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by bob101

Look at it this way. If they removed part 5 of that rule for the first 5 races.

No one who did not race last year could possibly make the race.

Say in the 5th race this year qualifying is rained out. You are #36 in points overall this year and did not race at all last year.

You would not make the race and instead it would go to someone who could have finished as low as 40 or worse in points last year.

Personally I like the rule. Not a fan of top 35..but if your going to keep it the first 5 race rule at least gives you multiple avenues to get in.

Be in the top 35 last year.
Be a past champion.
Win a race last year.
Be the best of remaining teams THIS year.

Thank you for your explanation. I know that broke it down to the ridiculously simple and you must be aggravated to tears beating me over the head with (to you) so simple a matter. I appreciate your gallant effort, truly.

OK, I get it BUT... (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here) isn't NA__AR's defense of the Chosen 35 Rule is that It is in place to protect and reward the teams who have supported the Series in the past?

If that is the defense (and I'm certain that it is) then how is, for example, GEM's #10 team and Red Bull's #84 being "rewarded and protected" for THEIR full season support last season?

Colour me perplexed...

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Thank you for your explanation. I know that broke it down to the ridiculously simple and you must be aggravated to tears beating me over the head with (to you) so simple a matter. I appreciate your gallant effort, truly.

OK, I get it BUT... (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here) isn't NA__AR's defense of the Chosen 35 Rule is that It is in place to protect and reward the teams who have supported the Series in the past?

If that is the defense (and I'm certain that it is) then how is, for example, GEM's #10 team and Red Bull's #84 being "rewarded and protected" for THEIR full season support last season?

Colour me perplexed...

Bob, Bob, Bob ... you're trying to make sense out of chaos. not possible. you know it and I know it.

Even if NASCAR wrote a rule in the mythical NASCAR Rule Book that said "Every rule meets the common sense test", both you and I know that'd be impossible because there's nobody in NASCAR that can pass the common sense test - they've proven it many times over the years. We can only accept it as it is (rantings from lunatics) and go on with out lives.

So save the brain energy for things that matter, like which TV show to watch or what to have for supper or do I want to wear socks today and if so do they have to match?

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

So save the brain energy for things that matter, like which TV show to watch or what to have for supper or do I want to wear socks today and if so do they have to match?

After 7 plus inches of snow today, and a record breaking February, along with plummeting temps .... I'll be wearing socks for at least a few weeks.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

After 7 plus inches of snow today, and a record breaking February, along with plummeting temps .... I'll be wearing socks for at least a few weeks.

Suck it up sissy

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

After 7 plus inches of snow today, and a record breaking February, along with plummeting temps .... I'll be wearing socks for at least a few weeks.

will they be matching? Or is it a day to day thing?

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

will they be matching? Or is it a day to day thing?

Now you see that becomes my wifes job. She washes, folds and puts them away. I take out a pair and if they match or don't match ... I wear them. Simple enough for me.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

After 7 plus inches of snow today, and a record breaking February, along with plummeting temps .... I'll be wearing socks for at least a few weeks.

Ain't Global Warming a bi*ch?

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Ain't Global Warming a bi*ch?

Yeah, because somebody told me it was supposed to show up. We've been stood up in this part of the world.