[BiscuitMan]

From Jayski's - Dodge Admits Mistake Led to Gordon's Penalty:
Dodge officials admit a mistake led to Robby Gordon having the wrong nose on his car at Daytona and later being penalized 100 points and $100,000 for the infraction. Kipp Owen, director of Dodge Motorsports Engineering, issued a statement Friday about what happened to Gordon. "While the nose meets the template for the car of tomorrow, it has not yet been approved by NASCAR or use in racing," Owen said in a statement. "The prototype parts were in the warehouse, and share the same basic part number as the approved ... nose. It was an unfortunate series of human errors compounded by the very short time frame [Gordon's team] had to get their cars changed to Dodge Chargers in time for the Daytona 500. Dodge has taken the appropriate steps in the warehouse to make sure that prototype parts can not be mistaken for approved parts in the future and hopes that the circumstances surrounding this error are considered."

This really should exonerate Robby and his crew chief from any "cheating" to gain a competitive advance.

I look forward to see Robby Gordon in an IRL car soon.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by BiscuitMan

From Jayski's - Dodge Admits Mistake Led to Gordon's Penalty:
Dodge officials admit a mistake led to Robby Gordon having the wrong nose on his car at Daytona and later being penalized 100 points and $100,000 for the infraction. Kipp Owen, director of Dodge Motorsports Engineering, issued a statement Friday about what happened to Gordon. "While the nose meets the template for the car of tomorrow, it has not yet been approved by NASCAR or use in racing," Owen said in a statement. "The prototype parts were in the warehouse, and share the same basic part number as the approved ... nose. It was an unfortunate series of human errors compounded by the very short time frame [Gordon's team] had to get their cars changed to Dodge Chargers in time for the Daytona 500. Dodge has taken the appropriate steps in the warehouse to make sure that prototype parts can not be mistaken for approved parts in the future and hopes that the circumstances surrounding this error are considered."

This really should exonerate Robby and his crew chief from any "cheating" to gain a competitive advance.

I look forward to see Robby Gordon in an IRL car soon.

The sad part is that it wasn't even going to give him an advantage. Just the decals were different.
Knowing Nascar and the way they are with Robby, Dodge saying it's their fault won't matter. Maybe it would if it were another team.

[Bassdogs]

One more time and then I'm heading for a nap! RG didn't get his penalty because he did something to gain a competative advantage. He could have been chewing gum while his car was being teched and gotten the same reaction from __SC__. He pi**ed them off in a royal fashion and they are going to make him pay until he learns his lesson. The series [sorry Bob] is called Nascar, not RGcar. It would serve Robbie well to learn that before he spends more of his limited resources paying fines.

[wingkey1]

Bitta pokin' around seems to indicate those who have toyed around with COT have pretty much seen consistent (relatively severe) slaps.

Now admittedly we don't tend to "poke" to the depths that others may, leaving the constant opening for those inclined to draw satisfaction from/in pointing to the error of our ways, as a means to better their day. Fire that thar internet bullet Sparky.

Were we to jump forward from the basis (corrected or not) that indeed there has been the perceived consistency of slap with COT, we see it as right.



Got ta doin' a little pokin' in to RGR. That tree's got a number of branches. Branches that seem to have been grown from/via invested $$$, and are fruit bearing ($$$ back). Lot of different interests and associated sources of income. Even fancy wheels for your personal vehicle. Other things like deals with Microsoft for gaming (unrealized for the Dakar thing at this point) that say - that boys playing at some of the high(est) roller levels. Got roots too.

Hmmmmm??? RGR a one car team by necessity or choice? Wood Brothers or similar others and RGR really in same category at this point in time? Don't seem so but, we could be wrong (There's that opening again).



Should penalties be adjusted based on multi-car vs. single car vs. single car but could be multi-car if they really wanted to? I say yes, just to get the discussion going. I think the exact same illegal alteration to COT should result in different penalties based on in which category an owner has been determined to fit. And I think the fans should be polled to determine the owner category on an infraction by infraction basis just to speed up the process.

And to take it a step further, if a part is supplied by an outside source and the owner states - hey I didn't know, I figured they knew what I needed/meant (and we all know that the owners of all entrants would never use this excuse untruthfully) - then the governing body must be totally responsible for an investigation that results in the absolute truth based upon uncontestable fact(s) and penalties applied to any one of the multiple parties involved in the transaction. I say yes to this as well, and suggest that racing be suspended until which time a decision is rendered by the governing body. After all, the "final points" won't be the "final points" until a decision can be made. And I think the fans should be polled to approve the decision of the governing body before racing resumes just to speed up the process.



And then there's MOPAR that has now openly admitted they stocked and provided a part they admittedly knew was unapproved to - well here's where it really gets murky - GEM who provided it to RGR? Directly to RGR? Was the wrong part number used in ordering by GEM, or whoever ordered the friggin part? Or was the right part requested of GEM, or was it MOPAR, and the wrong part was shipped? Was the wrong part received but knowing used anyway? More questions can easily be imagined. Fact is all parties know and admit wrong part was used. Governing body ought be expected to do one thing - apply a penalty consistent with other attempts or errors, not decide if new extenuating circumstances definitions need to be created. God forbid.

Or maybe not.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Bob, it's scary that I was actually thinkin this, and then you go and type it. What's more scary is this scenerio is workin towards bein true.

I don't think NA__AR is making a wholesale effort to eradicate the small teams but they absolutely DO NOT fit into the new NA__AR mold of idea of the ultimate racing series. It's evident (to me, anyway) that NA__AR only wants any new teams coming into the sport to have large bankrolls. Let me ask you (and this isn't rhetorical: I can't think of an answer) when was the last rule NA__AR passed that would encourage a single person with a large disposable amount of money, but not Roush or Hendrick-like wealthy, to start a new team? The Chosen 35 Rule does just the opposite and the new car hasn't shown me you don't require a field of engineers and accessibility to a wind tunnel.

Now today it's announced, unofficially, that Bobby Labonte AND General Mills might be on a Childress Chevie next season. Where will this leave Petty? Another case of the big teams getting bigger and the teams we've followed for years getting weaker.

I know that there are those who poo-poo my cynical feelings on this topic and say, "B.S. That'll never happen!" Maybe, maybe not. But, I would caution them to remember the following poem by Paster Martin Niemöller, written as a comment of Hitler's Social Democrat's rise to power:

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

First they take the small race tracks
Then they take the "stock car" out of the series
Then they take the traditional race date (Southern 500)
Then they take the single car teams
Are the traditional two-car teams next?

[jks812]

I said awhile back that I felt like they wanted to get rid of the small teams. And I really think they do. After all money makes money, and that's what Nascar wants. A small team can't bring in the big sponsors like a bigger team can. And thats all Nascar is concerned about now.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by jks812

I said awhile back that I felt like they wanted to get rid of the small teams. And I really think they do. After all money makes money, and that's what Nascar wants. A small team can't bring in the big sponsors like a bigger team can. And thats all Nascar is concerned about now.

Jim Beam may not be as big as Bud but it is certainly better known than "Furniture Row" isn't it ?? For a, once, single car team I think he did pretty well in the sponsorship department.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

.

And to take it a step further, if a part is supplied by an outside source and the owner states - hey I didn't know, I figured they knew what I needed/meant (and we all know that the owners of all entrants would never use this excuse untruthfully) - then the governing body must be totally responsible for an investigation that results in the absolute truth based upon uncontestable fact(s) and penalties applied to any one of the multiple parties involved in the transaction. I say yes to this as well, and suggest that racing be suspended until which time a decision is rendered by the governing body. After all, the "final points" won't be the "final points" until a decision can be made. And I think the fans should be polled to approve the decision of the governing body before racing resumes just to speed up the process.

And then there's MOPAR that has now openly admitted they stocked and provided a part they admittedly knew was unapproved to - well here's where it really gets murky - GEM who provided it to RGR? Directly to RGR? Was the wrong part number used in ordering by GEM, or whoever ordered the friggin part? Or was the right part requested of GEM, or was it MOPAR, and the wrong part was shipped? Was the wrong part received but knowing used anyway? More questions can easily be imagined. Fact is all parties know and admit wrong part was used. Governing body ought be expected to do one thing - apply a penalty consistent with other attempts or errors, not decide if new extenuating circumstances definitions need to be created. God forbid.

Or maybe not.

I like the way you think.

The way I see it Robbie held NA__AR's feet to the fire last year after Montreal when he proved to them, via their own rule book, that they unfairly treated him. Then he committed the cardinal sin; he spilled what transpired "In the trailer" to the press.

Now he's gone and done it again. Unlike Bush's and Stewart's statements after their recent trip "To the trailer ("What goes on in the trailer stays in the trailer), as soon as he was notified of the amount of the penalty he went public and bared the entire sorid case to the media. This put NA__AR on the defensive and, believe me, there is no room in NA__AR's ego for defense, only offense.

The argument I've heard is that NA__AR ruling body can NOT rule on intent. Whether Robbie intended to cheat or not is moot. This type of thinking, IMNSVHO, is simply a bureaucratic excuse for managerial laziness and the ability to hide behind the reasoning, "Well, that's the rule!"

Sorry. That's makes about as much sense as blanket zero tolerance rulings. (examples: TSA confiscating nail clippers as "dangerous weapons."
A five year old boy in Kansas expelled from school and charged with sexual harassment because the school system has a zero tolerance rule against sexual harassment the "The Rule" says unwanted physical contact is sexual harassment.)

It appears that, in Robbie's appeal process, NA__AR may well be forced to rule on "Intent" here and publicly at that. That ain't gonna make NA__AR happy.

[LSC9901]

While I'm not a big Robbie fan it would do my heart good to see someone like him put NASCAR on their knees.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

While I'm not a big Robbie fan it would do my heart good to see someone like him put NASCAR on their knees.

NA__AR will never; repeat N-E-V-E-R, admit their own failings on this matter. I think they'll hold firm and throw the ball back in Robbie's court. ("You say our "just and correct" penalty will close your doors.. OK, close them." What won't be said in this eventuality is, "You're a one-car team; who needs you?")
If they do cave in, they will cite the message from MOPAR acknowledging it's failure in the matter, and NA__AR can state, "In light of new information not available to us at the time of the initial decision to penalize Gordon, we...yada, yada, yada...blah, blah, blah..."

Either way, the big wheels will just keep on turning...

[Zack Man]

i know robby personally and he can p**s people off really well. i think that he just pushed the envelope to far with nascar and they are still mad about what happened in canada. i like robby as a person and as a driver and do not agree with the severety of the penalty but he needs to take lighter steps because he is treading on thin ice

[jks812]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Jim Beam may not be as big as Bud but it is certainly better known than "Furniture Row" isn't it ?? For a, once, single car team I think he did pretty well in the sponsorship department.

Thats true, Robby has been lucky in getting good sponsors, and not the little unknown ones. But the majority of the small teams don't do that.

[BiscuitMan]

I don't think NASCAR has to qualify their statements. History has shown that they make a decision and move on. With appeals, they address them quickly and move on. They still have the "Big Bill France" philosophy about their rules and the race teams preparing cars to meet the NASCAR rule book.

Facts are: Robby Gordon's car was rolled into the inspection station at Daytona with a part that was not the correct design. Although the part had the appropriate number on it, the part was different and the inspectors. NASCAR fined Frank Kerr, RGM crew chief, and suspended him for 6 races. Then they docked Robby Gordon for 100 points. NASCAR holds the race team responsible for having their car ready to race meeting the NASCAR rule book at the time of the inspection. RGM did not have the car prepared to meet all NASCAR provisions in the rule book.

RGM researched the problem and found Dodge had shipped an unapproved part to GEM. GEM distributed the unapproved part to RGM who placed in on the vehicle. Dodge has since announced that they were responsible for the error.

Further, a NASCAR representative told ESPN today that they would not be swayed by "public opinion" to alter Robby Gordon points fine or Frank Kerr's suspension and fine.

We all can discuss this but NASCAR should be making a decision soon to prevent "public opinion" from eroding "public support" and "fan base". The longer they wait, the more "public opinon" grows.

I think Robby's going to have to race hard to gain back his 100 points. I also think Dodge should sell a few more cars and pay Frank Kerr's fine.

[titans#1]

they shouldnt give the penalty but they did notice the nose and that is illegal i mean when waltripe got cought with the jet fuel in his car last year and they noticed it,waltripe fixed it but they still gave the penalty you just have to make your own personal expection before the officials do you cant put the car together and think nothing is wrong with it.

[Racer Duck]

But, I've got an honest to goodness "I'm confused" question: Just how long do parts have to "cure" in NASCAR's warehouse before NASCAR chooses to act on putting either the "Approved" or "Disapproved" stamp on them? I'm pretty sure the Dodge nosepiece has been there since last season, shortly after Dodge stated they were going to change their COT from Challenger to Charger .. or was it the other way around? Whatever .. with only nose and tail pieces making up the difference between any two models (along with the decals .. which seem to have been approved), one wonders just how hard the process is to "approve" nearly identical replacement parts (the stated differences is the placement of the decal lines for the 2 Dodge models.)

.


just heard today, but haven't researched it, so consider what follows a rumor.

None other than John Darby said the "illegal" nose on Robby's car was identical to the "legal" nose and offered no advantage nor disadvantage to Robby. Now, how is NASCAR going to squirm out of this one?