[Bob Tanner]

They had the Rolex 24 Hour race this weekend past. I watched it awhile and, aside from the changing drivers (I have tried to get into that and just can't) I found it as action filled as most Cup races and equally as interesting. So...

What do you think the reaction would be if, over a period of a few years, Cup and the Rolex Series merged? (How's that question for a kick in the groin, eh?)

Let's look at it a second though. ISC owns the Rolex Series (It's run by Jim France)
They have the ability to draw some of NA__AR's biggest names (Earnhardt, Stewart, Busch, Montoya, to name a few).
The Series draws some major sponsors (Target, Sun Trust, Crown Royal, Red Bull).
They run specially designed prototype cars. (NA__AR no longer even tries to pretend it's a "stock car" series; they also run specially designed pseudo-stock prototype cars)
I don't know how much it takes to get into Rolex PT racing but I read where they usually have fifty-plus PT entries (even more in the GT class!) for each race, so I would assume it's no more than a car team spends, even with the Rolex car technology.
They Cup driver uniformly say they like to race the cars and that they're fun to drive.
Rolex now runs Pontiac's, Fords, and I know in the recent past they've run Corvettes and Cadillacs.

Are we mad yet?

So what you think about merging the two series? They could run the Rolex cars and GT cars in the same race and wipe out the bogus COT and the BGN cars? (This would make Cup Raiding a moot point)
The series would get an immediate influx of new blood from the Rolex Series (If you haven't noticed NA__AR has chased a lot of teams out and every year the number of teams running the whole season is decreasing).
They could replace some of the races which don't draw well (can you say "California," boys and girls?) with tracks from the Rolex circuit (Leguna Seca and Virgina Speedway).
Since these cars are more capable of running street courses and air strips, such a move might be NA__AR's inroad to markets they haven't busted into yet?

Any of you got any contracts out on me yet to get someone to hack my computer and wipe my hard drive slick?

Since there are two active and relatively successful sports car series now (Rolex and American Le Mans Series), there must be a market for this type of racing?

Do I like the idea? No necessarily. I see lots of problems and those slightly outweigh the positives.

Could it happen? Probably not. However I thought it was a different type of idea from others we see here and that it might stimulate some interesting debate. Besides it might be one way to do away with the stupid and ruinous Chosen 35 Rule. (I would go to almost ANY extreme to trash that damn Rule; that and the Cup Raiders)

[LSC9901]

Bob, I may just delete this thread before Brian sees it and decides that there are a couple of minor changes he wants to make for the '09 season.

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

They had the Rolex 24 Hour race this weekend past. I watched it awhile and, aside from the changing drivers (I have tried to get into that and just can't) I found it as action filled as most Cup races and equally as interesting. So...

What do you think the reaction would be if, over a period of a few years, Cup and the Rolex Series merged? (How's that question for a kick in the groin, eh?)

Let's look at it a second though. ISC owns the Rolex Series (It's run by Jim France)
They have the ability to draw some of NA__AR's biggest names (Earnhardt, Stewart, Busch, Montoya, to name a few).
The Series draws some major sponsors (Target, Sun Trust, Crown Royal, Red Bull).
They run specially designed prototype cars. (NA__AR no longer even tries to pretend it's a "stock car" series; they also run specially designed pseudo-stock prototype cars)
I don't know how much it takes to get into Rolex PT racing but I read where they usually have fifty-plus PT entries (even more in the GT class!) for each race, so I would assume it's no more than a car team spends, even with the Rolex car technology.
They Cup driver uniformly say they like to race the cars and that they're fun to drive.
Rolex now runs Pontiac's, Fords, and I know in the recent past they've run Corvettes and Cadillacs.

Are we mad yet?

So what you think about merging the two series? They could run the Rolex cars and GT cars in the same race and wipe out the bogus COT and the BGN cars? (This would make Cup Raiding a moot point)
The series would get an immediate influx of new blood from the Rolex Series (If you haven't noticed NA__AR has chased a lot of teams out and every year the number of teams running the whole season is decreasing).
They could replace some of the races which don't draw well (can you say "California," boys and girls?) with tracks from the Rolex circuit (Leguna Seca and Virgina Speedway).
Since these cars are more capable of running street courses and air strips, such a move might be NA__AR's inroad to markets they haven't busted into yet?

Any of you got any contracts out on me yet to get someone to hack my computer and wipe my hard drive slick?

Since there are two active and relatively successful sports car series now (Rolex and American Le Mans Series), there must be a market for this type of racing?

Do I like the idea? No necessarily. I see lots of problems and those slightly outweigh the positives.

Could it happen? Probably not. However I thought it was a different type of idea from others we see here and that it might stimulate some interesting debate. Besides it might be one way to do away with the stupid and ruinous Chosen 35 Rule. (I would go to almost ANY extreme to trash that damn Rule; that and the Cup Raiders)

Well the GTs are closer to actual stock cars. Even the Prototypes are more real life then the COTs (they have direct injected/ more stock like engines).
So yep I'd chose the GTs and even the protoypes over the COTs. But if Grand-Am should merge with someone it should be with ALMS. G-A and ALMS are like Champ Car and IRL, separated = no big break.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

Well the GTs are closer to actual stock cars. Even the Prototypes are more real life then the COTs (they have direct injected/ more stock like engines).
So yep I'd chose the GTs and even the protoypes over the COTs. But if Grand-Am should merge with someone it should be with ALMS. G-A and ALMS are like Champ Car and IRL, separated = no big break.

I knew this would solicit a response from you, my friend. An a good point which brings up a question...

It is reported often and widely that it is completely impossible to build and race a "stock" car, even in size and appearance. It's just not practical nor safe. Yet the GT Series in both Grand Am (Rolex) and ALMS do just that. They both have entries in this Series roughly double of that in Cup and Cup Lite, but with no massive safety issues that I know of. How and why?

Why do I get the feeling the NA__AR spin machine has keeping its fans feeling like mushrooms for years? (Kept in the dark and fed manure)

[wingkey1]

Grand-Am - Network Home

Kinda fun that the rulebooks for the associated series are available on line. Kinda telling as one reads through carefully though that "stock" ain't here either, by a long shot. Never realized the engines were rev-limited. Nice way to keep the speeds within a safe and evenly competitive range. Also makes handling on the twisty segment real important. Noticed the individual manufacturers engines are "helped" toward equality by the governing body by varying the rev-limit and allowing other governing body defined and policed alterations away from stock, on a "by manufacturer" basis.

Can you imagine the response were NASCAR to come out with - OK Bowties no more than 7000 RPM for you, Blue Ovals - feel free to twist yours all the way up to 10,000, Toyo - 4000 is your number. Then change it up the following year for "equality".

Maybe Dougie ought race here so he can get "special consideration" for his engines this year.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Grand-Am - Network Home

Kinda fun that the rulebooks for the associated series are available on line. Kinda telling as one reads through carefully though that "stock" ain't here either, by a long shot. Never realized the engines were rev-limited. Nice way to keep the speeds within a safe and evenly competitive range. Also makes handling on the twisty segment real important. Noticed the individual manufacturers engines are "helped" toward equality by the governing body by varying the rev-limit and allowing other governing body defined and policed alterations away from stock, on a "by manufacturer" basis.

Can you imagine the response were NASCAR to come out with - OK Bowties no more than 7000 RPM for you, Blue Ovals - feel free to twist yours all the way up to 10,000, Toyo - 4000 is your number. Then change it up the following year for "equality".

Maybe Dougie ought race here so he can get "special consideration" for his engines this year.

My major complaint is in the "Stock appearing" area. I have no problem with the engines being modified for performance and reliability.

Gee. They have a rule book on-line? Do you mean to say that if a fan has a question about a decision made by the race officials, they can go on-line and get an insight into what transpired? How revolutionary is THAT?

The sports car types equalize things with engine mods; NA__AR does it with body changes (re: the extra width given to GM in 87, to name just one incident, and there are many).

Thanks for the post and the link, Wing. Maybe NA__AR should take note?

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

My major complaint is in the "Stock appearing" area. I have no problem with the engines being modified for performance and reliability.

Gee. They have a rule book on-line? Do you mean to say that if a fan has a question about a decision made by the race officials, they can go on-line and get an insight into what transpired? How revolutionary is THAT?

The sports car types equalize things with engine mods; NA__AR does it with body changes (re: the extra width given to GM in 87, to name just one incident, and there are many).

Thanks for the post and the link, Wing. Maybe NA__AR should take note?

The Rolex series pretty much loses all of the "Stock appearing" area with/at the Grand Am class. They are the ones that go rippin' by the "Stock appearing" classes running at the same time. They are pretty much all (Pontiac, Lexus, etc.) the exact same body except for the grill/nose. Sounds familiar. They are also issued their rear wings. Maybe Cup has already taken a bit too much note.

Have always felt the intro of the "super speedways" in Cup was significant, perhaps even the most significant, cause for the need to move away from stock and/or stock appearing. There is a (speed) point where the "stock appearing" moves towards deadly. Get all tracks on the Cup circuit to the 3/4 mile and less (slow 'em down), might see stock appearing creep back in.

With regards to the rule book, like Cup there's a lot of words that feel/read like the 'ol - or as determined by the governing body to be inappropriate (detrimental?) for/to the sport.

The sports car types equalize things with engine mods; NA__AR does it with body changes - Might actually be said NASCAR and sports car types (Rolex for sure) use both.

Pretty much come to the conclusion here than any top/near top level series departed from stock power and body style by quite a bit and quite a while ago.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

The Rolex series pretty much loses all of the "Stock appearing" area with/at the Grand Am class. They are the ones that go rippin' by the "Stock appearing" classes running at the same time. They are pretty much all (Pontiac, Lexus, etc.) the exact same body except for the grill/nose. Sounds familiar. They are also issued their rear wings. Maybe Cup has already taken a bit too much note.

Have always felt the intro of the "super speedways" in Cup was significant, perhaps even the most significant, cause for the need to move away from stock and/or stock appearing. There is a (speed) point where the "stock appearing" moves towards deadly. Get all tracks on the Cup circuit to the 3/4 mile and less (slow 'em down), might see stock appearing creep back in.

With regards to the rule book, like Cup there's a lot of words that feel/read like the 'ol - or as determined by the governing body to be inappropriate (detrimental?) for/to the sport.

The sports car types equalize things with engine mods; NA__AR does it with body changes - Might actually be said NASCAR and sports car types (Rolex for sure) use both.

Pretty much come to the conclusion here than any top/near top level series departed from stock power and body style by quite a bit and quite a while ago.

IRT "stock appearing," I was referring to the GT Series, not the PT Series. Those are about as "stock looking" as the current Cup thingee. You can still identify a make of car in the GT Series by looking at it, more or less.

[DOF_power]

There are all sorts of at least stock looking cars, namely touring cars, GTs, rally cars.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

There are all sorts of at least stock looking cars, namely touring cars, GTs, rally cars.

IF I had my druthers, NA__AR would become an American version of the BTCC. As far as I'm concerned, for the stock car fan who wants something way above entry level stock car racing, the BTCC has the best racing and some of the most challenging courses on the planet. I followed it closely on EuroVision when we lived in Spain. I got really hooked on both BTCC and GPMoto.

Things I tried never to miss on TV when I lived over there; BTCC and GPMoto racing and Tutti-Frutti on RTL. (I guess that shows what kind of class I have, eh? <g>)

For competition I'll take BTCC over NA__AR any day (or, at least, the BTCC of the late 80's)