[Quality88]

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Citing safety concerns, NASCAR has made two adjustments to its 2008 pit road rules for its three national touring series. (Swan: Pit dangers)
Sprint Cup Series director John Darby addressed the two changes Wednesday, the final day of the opening session of Preseason Thunder at Daytona International Speedway, which is also the site of each series' opening event during Speedweeks 2008 in February.
In the first, over-the-wall pit crews in the Cup, Nationwide and Craftsman Truck series will no longer be allowed to push-start their stalled race vehicles for more than three pit stalls beyond their assigned service area.

Darby said that in the past, for example, if a vehicle ran out of fuel on its way to its pit box for refueling, it might not readily restart, thus "the crews might have to push the vehicle the full length of pit road, while everyone else was entering and exiting the pits, and that's not a real good situation.
"We've limited crews to the same three-box length for pushing as the vehicles can drive through getting onto pit road."
Darby said if the vehicle does not restart within the three-box limit, it would have to be returned to its assigned pit box to be worked on.
"We're much more comfortable with them pushing it back to the pit box and getting it started than we were with them pushing it the length of pit road," Darby said.
The actual rule book states "...Cars may not be pushed past the flag person at the end of the pit road. Unless otherwise authorized, once the race is underway, cars may be started by hand pushing in the pit area only, but under no circumstances is any car to be hand pushed more than three pit boxes away from their assigned pit box or into the acceleration zone or onto the race track from the pit area. Cars may not receive any assistance after the white flag has been displayed, except those cars making pit stops ..."
In the second, outside tires that have been removed from a vehicle during a pit stop can no longer be free-rolled from the outside of the pit box to the pit wall; rather, they must be hand-directed to the inner half of the pit box before being released.
"The way we saw the procedure develop, the tires were going, unattended, back to the pit wall," Darby said. "As long as their aim was correct, and nothing was in the way it works pretty good -- but typically it was not a good situation.
"So now we've mandated that the tire changer or carrier has to hand-roll or pick up the tire and carry it to the inside of the pit box."
The actual rule book states "A team member must be in contact with the outside tire(s) until the outside tire(s) reach the inside half of the pit box before the car leaves its assigned pit box. Any tires left in the outside half of the assigned pit box, or beyond, will result in a time or other penalty ..."
The changes will be reflected in the 2008 rule books for the respective series, which are currently being distributed.


Thoughts?

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Quality88

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Citing safety concerns, NASCAR has made two adjustments to its 2008 pit road rules for its three national touring series. (Swan: Pit dangers)
Sprint Cup Series director John Darby addressed the two changes Wednesday, the final day of the opening session of Preseason Thunder at Daytona International Speedway, which is also the site of each series' opening event during Speedweeks 2008 in February.
In the first, over-the-wall pit crews in the Cup, Nationwide and Craftsman Truck series will no longer be allowed to push-start their stalled race vehicles for more than three pit stalls beyond their assigned service area.

Darby said that in the past, for example, if a vehicle ran out of fuel on its way to its pit box for refueling, it might not readily restart, thus "the crews might have to push the vehicle the full length of pit road, while everyone else was entering and exiting the pits, and that's not a real good situation.
"We've limited crews to the same three-box length for pushing as the vehicles can drive through getting onto pit road."
Darby said if the vehicle does not restart within the three-box limit, it would have to be returned to its assigned pit box to be worked on.
"We're much more comfortable with them pushing it back to the pit box and getting it started than we were with them pushing it the length of pit road," Darby said.
The actual rule book states "...Cars may not be pushed past the flag person at the end of the pit road. Unless otherwise authorized, once the race is underway, cars may be started by hand pushing in the pit area only, but under no circumstances is any car to be hand pushed more than three pit boxes away from their assigned pit box or into the acceleration zone or onto the race track from the pit area. Cars may not receive any assistance after the white flag has been displayed, except those cars making pit stops ..."
In the second, outside tires that have been removed from a vehicle during a pit stop can no longer be free-rolled from the outside of the pit box to the pit wall; rather, they must be hand-directed to the inner half of the pit box before being released.
"The way we saw the procedure develop, the tires were going, unattended, back to the pit wall," Darby said. "As long as their aim was correct, and nothing was in the way it works pretty good -- but typically it was not a good situation.
"So now we've mandated that the tire changer or carrier has to hand-roll or pick up the tire and carry it to the inside of the pit box."
The actual rule book states "A team member must be in contact with the outside tire(s) until the outside tire(s) reach the inside half of the pit box before the car leaves its assigned pit box. Any tires left in the outside half of the assigned pit box, or beyond, will result in a time or other penalty ..."
The changes will be reflected in the 2008 rule books for the respective series, which are currently being distributed.


Thoughts?

I'll make a better evaluation after I get my copy of the rule book !!!

I'm sure the tire rule will add time to the stop but since it will effect everyone no harm, no foul.

[jks812]

For the safety of the pit guys, I really like rule 1. I like that they can no longer push a car all the way down pit road with cars going on both sides of them trying to keep from hitting them.
I also like the second rule, especially after so many got hit by loose tires before.

[Racer Duck]

guess that means the jackman has to nursemaid the outside tires until the tire carriers are free to hustle them back to the wall.

now if they'd implement air jacks in the car, like F1, IRL, etc., and up the pit crew count there wouldn't be all that running around!

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

guess that means the jackman has to nursemaid the outside tires until the tire carriers are free to hustle them back to the wall.

now if they'd implement air jacks in the car, like F1, IRL, etc., and up the pit crew count there wouldn't be all that running around!

I agree, in the 1960s NASCAR leaded the way (via the Woods) in terms of pit changes, today they're way behind.

[Phils20]

I'm OK with those changes. They say they won't do the air jacks due to a desire to hold costs down. I think that horse has already left the barn!

[wingkey1]

Two good moves. Having had the opportunity to work in the hot chute (Pit) have seen at way to close a distance, team members struck by vehicles and other things.

Noted some mention of airjacks. Not sure how this relates/addresses either pushing a stalled vehicle or the specific tire handling element addressed by the rule change. Do know reason air jacks have not been implemented is the desire to keep the changing of the tires more "relate-able" to the fans. We all have to get out the 'ol jack, work with 5 lugs, etc. We can "relate/appreciate" based on direct and personal experience. The ballet of the Pit is clearly impressive and artful. Eventually the demands of the (new?) fan base will eliminate this, replacing it with technology.

While fascinated here by the applied technology and resultant speed of the tire change with air jacks and a single large nut per tire, surely can't relate.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Two good moves. Having had the opportunity to work in the hot chute (Pit) have seen at way to close a distance, team members struck by vehicles and other things.

Noted some mention of airjacks. Not sure how this relates/addresses either pushing a stalled vehicle or the specific tire handling element addressed by the rule change. Do know reason air jacks have not been implemented is the desire to keep the changing of the tires more "relate-able" to the fans. We all have to get out the 'ol jack, work with 5 lugs, etc. We can "relate/appreciate" based on direct and personal experience. The ballet of the Pit is clearly impressive and artful. Eventually the demands of the (new?) fan base will eliminate this, replacing it with technology.

While fascinated here by the applied technology and resultant speed of the tire change with air jacks and a single large nut per tire, surely can't relate.

hold on there hoss. the current NASCAR pit stop may have some similar elements to what a fan has to do changing a tire on mama's mini-van, but "applied technology" in NASCAR teams has left said fan in the dust: lug nuts glued onto wheels with special compounds that disintegrate when stressed, machined lugs with anti-seize lubricant, one pump super light jacks, high speed super hard lug nut sockets designed to slip over nuts while turning at speed, thousand dollar precision impact wrenches powered by compressed nitrogen gas and, last but not least, tires inflated with inert gas. I don't know about you, but I don't see that stuff in my neighbor's garage (I've got it in mine cause I've got race cars that use that stuff.)

The point I was making is that with air jacks, there's no such "ballet" of pit people: the tire changers (one for each corner) aren't running around, nor are tire carriers since the tire is already in place when the car enters the pits as is the tire changer; there's no jackman running around with a large hunk of metal; the car cannot "fall off" the jack nor can the driver leave before it's off the jack.

It would seem to me that expense is not the issue, nor the number of people over the wall, but "tradition". Tradition bounded in a stubbornness to change to safer methods. Sure, it's not as glitzy, but I'd wager fewer pit people in series that use air jacks are injured each year than NASCAR pit crewmen. And the tracks with tight pit spaces will be forced to increase pit spacing which may reduce field size or force shared pit stalls. But the pit crews will be safer, and that's what the new rules were addressing.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

hold on there hoss. the current NASCAR pit stop may have some similar elements to what a fan has to do changing a tire on mama's mini-van, but "applied technology" in NASCAR teams has left said fan in the dust: lug nuts glued onto wheels with special compounds that disintegrate when stressed, machined lugs with anti-seize lubricant, one pump super light jacks, high speed super hard lug nut sockets designed to slip over nuts while turning at speed, thousand dollar precision impact wrenches powered by compressed nitrogen gas and, last but not least, tires inflated with inert gas. I don't know about you, but I don't see that stuff in my neighbor's garage (I've got it in mine cause I've got race cars that use that stuff.)

The point I was making is that with air jacks, there's no such "ballet" of pit people: the tire changers (one for each corner) aren't running around, nor are tire carriers since the tire is already in place when the car enters the pits as is the tire changer; there's no jackman running around with a large hunk of metal; the car cannot "fall off" the jack nor can the driver leave before it's off the jack.

It would seem to me that expense is not the issue, nor the number of people over the wall, but "tradition". Tradition bounded in a stubbornness to change to safer methods. Sure, it's not as glitzy, but I'd wager fewer pit people in series that use air jacks are injured each year than NASCAR pit crewmen. And the tracks with tight pit spaces will be forced to increase pit spacing which may reduce field size or force shared pit stalls. But the pit crews will be safer, and that's what the new rules were addressing.

the current NASCAR pit stop may have some similar elements to what a fan has to do changing a tire on mama's mini-van - violent agreement we are here, and even with all of the enhancements to the process noted, it remains the closest thing to what we all "know" amongst all of the top level series. But there are many who no longer desire "kept close to stock" so this will succumb to those who'd rather implement change than attempt to save any last element of tradition. Few desire any attempt at preserving tradition and would/will promote changes in the name of other virtues (i.e. COToday for safety amongst other "reasons").

But the pit crews will be safer, and that's what the new rules were addressing - yup. As noted in our first sentence/paragraph. We have been an arms length away from a member of another team as an entering car skid and pinned him to a fence post.

It would seem to me that expense is not the issue, nor the number of people over the wall, but "tradition" - again we are in violent agreement. I am clearly guilty of wanting the governing body of NASCAR to be "stubborn towards tradition". Clearly an increasingly unpopular view.

[Quality88]

I don't like nursin the tire to the wall so much... I understand it. I won't gripe about it.

As far as NA$CAR stayin as close to stock.... I hate it to say this, but, that ship left the dock along time ago.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

the current NASCAR pit stop may have some similar elements to what a fan has to do changing a tire on mama's mini-van - violent agreement we are here, and even with all of the enhancements to the process noted, it remains the closest thing to what we all "know" amongst all of the top level series. But there are many who no longer desire "kept close to stock" so this will succumb to those who'd rather implement change than attempt to save any last element of tradition. Few desire any attempt at preserving tradition and would/will promote changes in the name of other virtues (i.e. COToday for safety amongst other "reasons").

But the pit crews will be safer, and that's what the new rules were addressing - yup. As noted in our first sentence/paragraph. We have been an arms length away from a member of another team as an entering car skid and pinned him to a fence post.

It would seem to me that expense is not the issue, nor the number of people over the wall, but "tradition" - again we are in violent agreement. I am clearly guilty of wanting the governing body of NASCAR to be "stubborn towards tradition". Clearly an increasingly unpopular view.

I guess what we have is a book of matches .. the other series have Bic lighters. both work. advocates on both sides.

(I too like the current ballet .. just wish pit boxes were larger (wider and longer.)

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Quality88

As far as NA$CAR stayin as close to stock.... I hate it to say this, but, that ship left the dock along time ago.

Amen to that.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

I guess what we have is a book of matches .. the other series have Bic lighters. both work. advocates on both sides.

(I too like the current ballet .. just wish pit boxes were larger (wider and longer.)

both work Yup. And both can/should be enjoyed for/in their differences. We do here, but it is clear that the demand for the "Bic" increases. Eventually NASCAR will likely give it up and pit stops will look just like those of the other top series.

like the current ballet - Yup. There's nothing else like it in motorsports today. Any/all moves towards keeping it safe, with the core purpose of keeping the ballet, gets our vote/support. Wasn't really all that long ago when pit speed was unlimited and there was as much "tap dance and life saving acrobatics" as there was ballet. Today the reference is to the "race off" of pit road. Was once race onto, in, and out of pit road. Knew as TV coverage increased (goes hand in hand with popularity increase) and the general public was seeing folks being run over by speeding cars, that the old days and ways (in the Pits) were numbered. Did not enjoy the injuries, but really did enjoy the high speed pit action.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

[i][u] I am clearly guilty of wanting the governing body of NASCAR to be "stubborn towards tradition". Clearly an increasingly unpopular view.

Sometimes, my Winged friend, seeing "tradition," and "NA__AR," in the same sentence, gives me pause. I lose my breath and become slightly verklempt.

There... I'm better now.

[oncea3fan]

I like both rules and actually would prefer them a bit stiffer, no pushing the car out side your pit area, and full contract of that out side until it's over the wall.

air jacks would be good and if they would limit the air line size it could slow the stops down a bit. and there'd be less chance of an accident.
I liked it when there were 20 sec pit stops