[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Damn you Bob and your questions....I bet he would if allowed. On the other hand he may believe David to be able to get his self into the races and Bring himself up.

I kinda thought that it brought up an interesting scenario.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I kinda thought that it brought up an interesting scenario.

It does, but I hate when you post questions like that when I have a good buzz goin. It makes me think which is what I don't want to do when I'm drinkin. It is a good ponderance though

[The Dude]

Honestly guys, the only thing this point thing changes is that Busch still drives the same car this year as last year. if push came to shove, Penske could just as easily put Hornish in the 2 car, change some stickers around and we'd have the same situation.

In all reality, it's probably easier this way.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by The Dude

Honestly guys, the only thing this point thing changes is that Busch still drives the same car this year as last year. if push came to shove, Penske could just as easily put Hornish in the 2 car, change some stickers around and we'd have the same situation.

In all reality, it's probably easier this way.

I don't think that Miller would never stand for a change of number.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I don't think that Miller would never stand for a change of number.

I think Miller would raise a little hell. Penske would never do somethin like that to Miller.... they would be to afraid to lose their alltime sponsor.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by The Dude

Honestly guys, the only thing this point thing changes is that Busch still drives the same car this year as last year. if push came to shove, Penske could just as easily put Hornish in the 2 car, change some stickers around and we'd have the same situation.

In all reality, it's probably easier this way.

To me thats not all it changes. It means that a guy who tried to qualify like 7 or 8 times and only made it 2 times, is guranteed a starting spot. And the guy who ran the whole year and drove his butt off isn't guranteed a starting spot.

[Racer Duck]

you people are making this thing way too complicated.

re: Busch/Hornish/Miller/Mobil 1.

Penske has 4 contracts, one with each of the parties affected. Penske had to "clear it" with all of them before making the request to NASCAR. They all obviously agreed .. any one of them could have blocked it - think about it.

re: Bob's scenario

If UPS said they wanted Rooty, they'd get Rooty. If that meant they moved the UPS decals from one car number to another, that's easily done (no number changing or point swapping, just a driver/sponsor thing, and not subject to NASCAR's OK (other than the normal "conflict of interest" NASCAR bull.) If the decals have already been approved, NASCAR doesn't care (as long as the souvenir/die cast sales aren't affected too much, that is... )

point is, owner points go with a car number, NOT a driver. The driver doesn't even get mentioned when you're talking owner points. The carryover of owner points position (Chosen) for the first x races of the year (currently x=5) is only for guaranteed starting position should the driver not qualify on speed, i.e., there's 35 reserved spots in the starting grid with specific car numbers on them - where on the grid they end up has to do with qualifying, nothing else; no other car will occupy one of those 35 spots, however, the other 8 spots are up for grabs. Except spot #43 - that's the Past Cup Champ's provisional spot .. filled by anyone who qualifies on speed unless a "Past Champ" who failed to qualify on speed or to have a Chosen spot wants it. There are other "guaranteed" provisionals that pop up from time to time, like defending race winner, and "favorite son" memorial races - but they are determined by the track/race sponsor, not NASCAR (for instance, the defending Daytona 500 winner has a guaranteed starting spot, so there's a possibility of only 6 starting spots being up for grabs for the Daytona 500 .. and if Richmond wanted to have an Elliott Sadler Appreciation Day race, they could hold spot #42 for Elliiott so he'd have a guaranteed starting spot should he not be in the Chosen and fail to qualify on speed .. NASCAR tries hard to discourage these provisionals...except for the "Past Cup Champ provisional", that is.)

another thing to remember, every driver starts the year with ZERO/zip/zilch/nada driver points. That means they all start even. The Chosen carryover is NASCAR's stupid attempt to keep a specific group of sponsor's cars in in front of the TV cameras for the start of a new season - the media and NASCAR attempt to color the issue, but that's what's going on.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by clutch

He's not chosen anymore PPS......Penske has given his chosenness away to the new teammate........but he does have his past champ provisional to fall back on if he cant qualify ....however one would expect him to qualify on time or speed if you like

Thanks. Understood.

How many past champ provisionals does Kurt get for one championship? What I mean to ask is that one championship doesn't give you just one provisional, does it? I agree that one would expect Kurt to qualify (damn!) on his own.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

This whole thing has made put my liver in a quiver right from the start. If I were Hornish, I'd be totally embarrassed. Talk about a blow to the ego, wow. If I were Busch, I think I'd almost have to see it as a compliment. Love him or hate him, he and his infamous little bro can both drive, as we know. Both the sponsor's and owner obviously have enough faith in him to give this a go. Granted, there is that champion's provisional thing to fall back on, so it's not a humongous risk, but I would think you'd have to be confident that your driver wasn't a total dork to actually yank his points. Personally, I'd like to see Kurt have a great year, qualifying on time each race and racking up some wins, proving you don't need points or provisionals to get in the race, just a little somethin' called talent.

While I can't support either Busch, I agree that if I were Hornish, I'd be a bit embarrassed. However, I'd also probably take the points and run with it! It'll be interesting to see if Hornish blows this "gift" away.

[clutch]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Thanks. Understood.

How many past champ provisionals does Kurt get for one championship? What I mean to ask is that one championship doesn't give you just one provisional, does it? I agree that one would expect Kurt to qualify (damn!) on his own.

Doesnt matter how many times he won the championship they are all now limited to 6

from Jayski......
Past Champions Limited To 6 Provisional Berths in Cup: NASCAR announced an update to the past champion’s provisional rule in the Nextel Cup Series for 2007. Beginning this season, a past champion’s provisional may be used by an eligible driver a maximum of six times over the course of the season. In addition, a team with a past champion eligible driver may only use this provisional a maximum of six times during a season. Previously, there was no limit on usage of the past champion’s provisional over the course of the 36-race season. The provisional gives the eligible driver the 43rd and final starting position in the race field. "As NASCAR seeks to place more emphasis on competition, we have decided the time is right to limit the number of provisionals allowed,” said NASCAR Vice President of Competition Robin Pemberton. “We believe this revision brings the provisional policy in line with the continued growth of the sport.”(NASCAR PR)
This is only for a team/driver OUTSIDE the top-35 in owners points, drivers whose team is in the top-35 in owners points, would already be guaranteed in the field and not need the Past Champions Provisional. The provisional is not used in the event Qualifying is cancelled and not charged.(1-31-2007)

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by clutch

Doesnt matter how many times he won the championship they are all now limited to 6

from Jayski......
Past Champions Limited To 6 Provisional Berths in Cup: NASCAR announced an update to the past champion’s provisional rule in the Nextel Cup Series for 2007. Beginning this season, a past champion’s provisional may be used by an eligible driver a maximum of six times over the course of the season. In addition, a team with a past champion eligible driver may only use this provisional a maximum of six times during a season. Previously, there was no limit on usage of the past champion’s provisional over the course of the 36-race season. The provisional gives the eligible driver the 43rd and final starting position in the race field. "As NASCAR seeks to place more emphasis on competition, we have decided the time is right to limit the number of provisionals allowed,” said NASCAR Vice President of Competition Robin Pemberton. “We believe this revision brings the provisional policy in line with the continued growth of the sport.”(NASCAR PR)
This is only for a team/driver OUTSIDE the top-35 in owners points, drivers whose team is in the top-35 in owners points, would already be guaranteed in the field and not need the Past Champions Provisional. The provisional is not used in the event Qualifying is cancelled and not charged.(1-31-2007)

Thanks, Clutch. I get it. 1 or 7 championships gives you 6 provisionals for each season.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

you people are making this thing way too complicated.

I agree, Charlie.

However, your above simple statement brings yet another question to my transplanted Hoosier-to-Alabama mind:

Is it really in NA__AR's best interest to promote to the casual fan a sport whose rules are so complicated and convoluted that they can be made to be as confusing as they have been portrayed in this thread.

Would NA__AR possibly pick up more new fans and lose fewer IF they would have very simple and easy-to-understand rules pertaining to awarding points and standings?

We here in this forum are probably a few levels above the casual fan in our understanding of how NA__AR operates. If the standings, points dissemination and standings can boggle our minds, can you imagine how the novice fan feels?

Just a random thought...

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I

We here in this forum are probably a few levels above the casual fan in our understanding of how NA__AR operates. If the standings, points dissemination and standings can boggle our minds, can you imagine how the novice fan feels?

Just a random thought...

There in lies the difference between the casual novice fan versus the rest of us. Doesn't it seem to you that a great part of the marketing that NASCAR does is aimed at that group of fans ???

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

There in lies the difference between the casual novice fan versus the rest of us. Doesn't it seem to you that a great part of the marketing that NASCAR does is aimed at that group of fans ???

They sure seem to be. They're marketing a confusing product, right?

[Quality88]

I still say caterin to fad fans will ultimately hurt the sport more than help it. Especially with the rules situation.