[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

Hmmnnn thins kinda of sounds to me like custom elastic-deformable structures, movable aero, possible crude mass dampers systems.
Doesn't NASCAR have tight regulations regarding this like the FIA ?!

tight regulations regarding this - sure do, and each and every measureable has a +/- range within which there is potential for variables to performance when the time is taken to "move" within the ranges of multiple variables/measureables in conjunction with one another. Takes a lot of $$ and time to do this of course, and there are those with the resources to do just that.

Got to know a race engine builder quite well a number of years back. Within just the engine alone there are hundreds (thousands?) of +/- tolerances, some number of them (never all) "spec'ed" by a/the governing body. He had dozens of engines that never left the shop. Day in day out, month after month, year after year, those in house engines would be torn down, then put back together in differing combinations of variables to see where the hidden performance lay. "Finds" were recorded for use in customer/client engines. A "find" for a short track may be useless for a longer track. A "find" today may be rendered useless when a new material becomes available/is used for an engine component. It's pretty much never ending - and this is just the engine.

The only way to ever stop this is to go truly IROCin'. No teams, one closed source for all assembly aspects of the vehicle to be raced, driver (essentially) never knows which of the prepared cars will be his/hers race to race. At least this may serve to satisfy the desire to have cars "look like production". Unfortunately it would still leave us with - "all look the same". Now we here enjoyed IROC, but want it kept - "in its place" - if you will. Enjoy just as much, maybe more, the competition amongst - "unequally prepared" cars.

[wingkey1]

DOF,

At times we are guilty here of not giving some of what is offered by others its just due. The following of yours, after we really spent a bit more time digesting, is good/right/hit our spot. Wanted you to know our appreciation. For us we can see/interpret "driversport" as perhaps "IROC".

Good stuff.

winger

If motorsport was just about the drivers, as some would want it, it would be called driversport.

Motorsport, for me at least, is the whole package, not just the drivers, but also the teams, their hard work/sweat, their creativity, the frustration, the triumphs, the unsung heroes, the cars. I feel sorry if a top driver isn't in a top car, I really do, but it doesn't mean I'll stop watching, as motorsport comes with the bad and ugly.

[Souporscotty]

As for the original intent of this thread; I thought NA$CAR become IROC back when they started using templates.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Souporscotty

As for the original intent of this thread; I thought NA$CAR become IROC back when they started using templates.

And that was quite some time ago. Certainly 15 years, likely more.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by simple simon

it has occurred to me lately - NASCAR has become the new IROC Series

the cars have no style anymore, no more individuality .... people talk about cookie cutter tracks .. these are cookie cutter cars ...... they look the same and drive the same ... the only difference is the # and paint job ...... may as well be IROC cars

and how about drivers ..... IROC had the top drivers from the top series around the world ....... and how about that .. now so does NASCAR

Ok Simon. You got us back on track. Perseverance will win out 9 out of 10 times.

Keeping with the original theme... I, personally, don't see it as an "IROC" Series, in the literal sense.

What NA__AR has morphed to is to become just another racing series with a vehicle designed specifically for that series. It's the same as Indy and F1; more so in Indy. There are some subtle differences but the cars all look more or less alike, or at least resemble each other.

IROC was all about completely identical cars with identical set ups. NA__AR hasn't gotten there [yet]. History has proven that this is a novel and interesting idea but it had a limited shelf life and because the newness wore off and because the marketing was stinko, it "now sleeps with the fishes." (Luca Brasi; The Godfather) I love that quote.

As far as having "World Class Drivers" in IROC...??? That's a little too subjective for me. I saw a bunch of very, very good, very popular drivers running IROC, but it was tilted heavily toward NASCAR A third of the field were NASCAR drivers and they ran NASCAR tracks almost exclusively.

I understand your train of thought and I thought much the same thing when the new car came out. But, in giving it some thought, I tend to see it less an IROC and more just another racing series, but this one has fenders.

[LSC9901]

I see your point Bob in that NASCAR isn't (yet) IROC. I may be wrong but I see Simon's view in that we are heading in that direction. We've already heard talk of spec engines. There is no variance in tires, the body appearance of the vehicles is becoming very generic.

My take on it is that we are heading more in that direction than we are going away from it. We may have a long way to go but .......

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I see your point Bob in that NASCAR isn't (yet) IROC. I may be wrong but I see Simon's view in that we are heading in that direction. We've already heard talk of spec engines. There is no variance in tires, the body appearance of the vehicles is becoming very generic.

My take on it is that we are heading more in that direction than we are going away from it. We may have a long way to go but .......

Spec engines doesn't mean there is no latitude for tuning, Steve. During the last years of my old group, ASA, they ran spec engines and there was a wide variance of performance.

I see both Simon's and your point. I think NA__AR is heading mostly in the direction of virtually every other American motorsport; identical cars with slightly different engines and suspensions.

The races will be won by engineers and pit crews, the drivers being used only because robots are not practical nor marketable to the general public.