[vincesanity82]

NASCAR said it has plans to change the point system since Nextel Cup drivers have won the last two Busch championships. Starting in 2009, the sanctioning body said drivers who are ranked in the top 35 in Nextel Cup can't earn points in the Nationwide championship. Roush, Childress and Gibbs said that won't keep them from getting double-duty from their drivers. Race wins to keep sponsors happy, they said, are more important than points. "I would be in 100 percent in favor of what they could do to make the Busch Series to where it was more about the Busch Series regulars, and it was more about the young guy coming in and trying to compete for a championship at that level," Kevin Harvick said. Newly-crowned Busch Series champion Carl Edwards isn't as sure. "I hope that I can race," he said. "The way I look at it, if I go to the local dirt track, there's a dirt track that runs on Wednesday nights and I want to go build a late model and go race for points, I can go do that and I'm glad that I can. And I feel that way about the Busch Series. "If NASCAR feels that they need to change for the good of the series, then I'll do whatever I need to do. I just hope I can still race in these Busch races when I want to." -- Athens Banner-Herald

OnlineAthens.com | Sports | Nationwide due for changes 12/05/07

[vincesanity82]

The Nationwide Series already is considered nothing more than a watered-down version of the Nextel Cup. Thirty-four of 35 races last year were won by Nextel Cup regulars. And all 36 wins came from teams that also field Nextel Cup cars. Converting a fleet of cars to a modern racer will cost millions. Most stand-alone Nationwide teams said they don't have that kind of money. "The question that needs to be asked is this: What is NASCAR trying to accomplish?" said car owner Armando Fitz. "The biggest expense is sitting on a bunch of race cars. I've got 28 right now. What am I going to do with them? "NASCAR needs to decide what's the purpose of the changes? The Busch Series is where you're supposed to be developing young drivers and crew chiefs and teams. Now it's become a money deal. It's a way for the Cup teams to finance their planes and buses." The name change and a reduction of 100 horsepower are the only changes planned for 2008. The new car is scheduled to hit the track a year later. The question is how many teams will go along for the ride? Some Nationwide teams already have closed their doors. Others said they may do the same. -- Athens Banner-Herald

OnlineAthens.com | Sports | Nationwide due for changes 12/05/07

[LSC9901]

This will be very interesting to watch this evolve. The Nationwide series may again become interesting in that it will allow more non-cup drivers to actually get to run in that series. I'll take the wait and see attitude right now.

[wingkey1]

Wonder if there will also be no prize/win money for those in Cup top 35? Seems this might be something to be considered. If not, and the top Cup drivers continue to "play" in National (as it seems they still intend to do) the lesser teams will continue to fold/hurt for lack of competition prize $.

Not sure their plan/thought here will change much/enough.

To be seen ---

[wingkey1]

We got like three posts/threads all using the exact same article, subject, and content going.

Might make sense to consolidate.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

We got like three posts/threads all using the exact same article, subject, and content going.

Might make sense to consolidate.

It would make sense to, but then we are talkin NA$CAR... oh wait, wrong topic, sorry

[jks812]

The only thing this will change is the fact that at least now we might have an actual Busch driver as champion. Might be a driver that only had top 10's and no wins, but it'll be a Busch driver. That's a start. But Nascar is doing nothing to get the series back to what it's suppose to be, a place for young drivers to start and hopefully work up to cup. Instead cup drivers is working their way back down to busch. Busch series is nothing but a joke now and will be that until Nascar limits cup drivers on how many races they can run in a year.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by jks812

The only thing this will change is the fact that at least now we might have an actual Busch driver as champion. Might be a driver that only had top 10's and no wins, but it'll be a Busch driver. That's a start. But Nascar is doing nothing to get the series back to what it's suppose to be, a place for young drivers to start and hopefully work up to cup. Instead cup drivers is working their way back down to busch. Busch series is nothing but a joke now and will be that until Nascar limits cup drivers on how many races they can run in a year.

I suggest a limit of zero !!

[jks812]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I suggest a limit of zero !!

I watch the races that are not loaded with cup drivers and rarely race when half the field is cup drivers. But I know alot of folks probably watch it for the cup drivers, so I feel they should have some. I think they should say the top 40 spots are reserved for non cup drivers and let the cup drivers qualify for the remainder spots. That way the majority of folks will be able to see the cup drivers but it won't be half the field, and the young drivers will have a chance.
If the Busch series starts out in 2008 like it was in 2007, I don't think I'll even be watching it.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by jks812

I watch the races that are not loaded with cup drivers and rarely race when half the field is cup drivers. But I know alot of folks probably watch it for the cup drivers, so I feel they should have some. I think they should say the top 40 spots are reserved for non cup drivers and let the cup drivers qualify for the remainder spots. That way the majority of folks will be able to see the cup drivers but it won't be half the field, and the young drivers will have a chance.
If the Busch series starts out in 2008 like it was in 2007, I don't think I'll even be watching it.

the only problem with that is the Cup drivers bring with them the entire resources of their Cup teams, something most Busch teams can't match...

Result: the Cup drivers qualify up front. Would be better if they would start from the back. I kinda like the local short track way of doing things: those without series points start from the back no matter how they qualify...

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

the only problem with that is the Cup drivers bring with them the entire resources of their Cup teams, something most Busch teams can't match...

Result: the Cup drivers qualify up front. Would be better if they would start from the back. I kinda like the local short track way of doing things: those without series points start from the back no matter how they qualify...

Thats true. But at least it wouldn't have but 2 or 3 cup drivers in every busch race. That wouldn't be as bad as having 20 or more. At least then a busch drivers can finish in the top 10 and make more prize money to help better their teams some.

[Bob Tanner]

NA__AR has allowed this to develop into a no-win situation from which there just isn't a simple answer, in my opinion, anyway.

The drivers have a case going for them; they aren't NASCAR employees; they're independent contractors. If NA__AR would just straight out bar them from BGN competition, they would have a legal case going for them, insofar as the Right To Work Law.

The track owners have a case in that, since NA__AR has allowed the Cup primadonna's to use BGN as a paid practice session and a way to supplement their incomes, the ticket buyers expect them to be there. If NASCAR were to prevent the Cup drivers from running BGN it would hit the track owners in their pocketbooks.

The team owners have a case because, since the advent of signing kids to development programs, they can [kind of] rightfully claim they use BGN as a series where they can evaluate the talent they've signed.

Driver fans love it because they can spend 25% of a Cup ticket and see virtually the same drivers.

OTOH, the regular BGN teams and drivers have little chance competing against the Cup resources. Evidence of this is obviously in the race finishes and final standings for the past four years.

We fans dislike it because of the blatant unfairness of the entire thing. Race fans have no problem seeing one driver or team kick the crap out of the others but we want to see it done on a more or less level playing field.

At one time BGN was a lower cost developmental series. A team or driver could get only a smattering of sponsor funding, build a car and go to tracks like Charlotte, Darlington and even Daytona and have a fair chance of making the field and even actually competing. It was a place where someone like Jack Ingram or Sam Ard could find a home to race in and even make a living doing so.

The Cup Raiders have been instrumental in driving the cost of the series to almost what Cup costs. Old line BGN owners are dropping like flies. The purses remain too low and the cost of racing is too high.

I do not have an answer. NA__AR could have stopped it years ago when the first Cup driver turned up to race in BGN. But, that ship has sailed and will never return.

Besides the absolute unfairness of the whole mess, I have a couple more worries... If BGN is going to be Cup Lite, where will the drivers of tomorrow come from? If they manage to get a Cup Lite ride but get their teeth kicked in each and every week, how will this prepare them for winning in Cup when/if they get the call?

If the BGN owners are bailing out, like the one-car Cup team owners have been doing for a decade, where will the next Jack Roush, Ray Evernham and Bill Davis come from? This may be critical, especially in the face of the new money men (Fenway, Gillette, the guy who bought Mikey out, etc., etc.) who are now seemingly everywhere.

NA__AR has allowed this to become a mess and I admit I have no real suggestions as to how they can get out of the whole thing. From what I've seen, all NA__AR seems willing to do is kind of admit there's a problem but lacks the guts to remedy the situation.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

NA__AR has allowed this to develop into a no-win situation from which there just isn't a simple answer, in my opinion, anyway.

.
.
.

NA__AR has allowed this to become a mess and I admit I have no real suggestions as to how they can get out of the whole thing. From what I've seen, all NA__AR seems willing to do is kind of admit there's a problem but lacks the guts to remedy the situation.

Actually, Bob, there are two changes, which if made, would virtually eliminate the Nationwide-whacking (doesn't really have ring to it, does it?):

• Schedule the races at different tracks for the same weekend (this hurts the track owners and could force some sponsors who play in both series to choose a single series to support)
• Use cars completely different from Cup much like the Pony car idea where nothing translates

One idea, though radical, would be to eliminate Cup-lite, replace it with CTS as #2 and elevate the Whelen series into the #3 spot. Talk about driver development!!!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

]One idea, though radical, would be to eliminate Cup-lite, replace it with CTS as #2 and elevate the Whelen series into the #3 spot. Talk about driver development!!!

You know, Duck, this very same concept hit me a couple of days ago, during a period of doing some deep thinking about the plight of BGN.

Theree completely different series with three distinctly types of cars.

Cup and Cup Lite for the driver fans; trucks for the race fan and Whelen for the open wheel fans. It'd bring the mods up to the level they belong; it'd give the best closed wheel racing of the weekend to second banana and the Cup primadonas could do whatever it is they call racing.

How could it miss?

[Racer Duck]

Bob, if you haven't fired off that missile you were gathering data for, you might think about adding this to it...